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Thread: Rosie Goes To The Vet

 
  1. #21
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    PlaxMacaws's Avatar


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    B&G (Jack) | MM (Maynard) - RIP | Hy (Zaf) - RIP | GW (Salsa) | NC (Bozley)
    Quote Originally Posted by kendrafitz View Post
    I was shocked as well. It’s not something I ever thought we would be dealing with. I haven’t heard of false positives as far as the testing goes. Definitely false negatives. But when we go back I will ask for another test.
    There is apparently a potential for false positive results on ABV and PDD.

    Clinicians often wish to rule out other diseases before they screen for ABV infection since it is possible that some of the symptoms and lesions found might be caused by another disease state.

    Until just a few years ago, the only diagnostic tools practitioners had were history, radiography, and signs; thus, clinicians were often unsure of their diagnoses. In an effort to “provide practical, non-invasive screening of populations,” researchers have begun to use cloacal swabs, fecal samples, and blood samples. Some of these tests, however, give false positive, false negative, and inconsistent results. This makes detection and accurate diagnosis very challenging. In addition, two other viruses have been proven to be the cause of the same symptoms as the Avian Bornavirus.

    From:
    https://www.beautyofbirds.com/pddtestingclinician.html
    Which diagnostic method did they use for Rosie? I believe that PCR would produce the most reliable results.

    Quote Originally Posted by kendrafitz View Post
    I am not going to go for another test now as from what I have read, stress can be a factor in triggering ABV to turn to PDD. So I would rather wait and keep an eye on her for the time being. I also read that hormones can be a trigger. Which is worrying for me as Rosie is just turning 6, which means we should be hitting hormones big time.
    I fully understand. And Kendra, I wish I were able to be online more. Unfortunately, I've been bogged down beyond reason of late. However, I will follow this thread very closely. Rosie's PDD diagnosis is horribly upsetting for me! I can only imagine how you must be feeling . FWIW, the local hospital almost killed my mother by terminating one of her critical medications without telling us, and leaving her off of the drug for more than three weeks. She's been at this same hospital since December 26, but will be discharged to a care facility within the next few days - irrespective of the fact that she is not at all well because of their negligence. I'm telling you this because I thought I should give you an update on my availability status. Please don't say more about my situation in this thread. Rosie's situation is critically important and all further discussion here should be exclusively about her. Rosie and you are in my thoughts
    He wanted to live. He was my Heaven... He's gone!

  2. The following 2 users like this post:

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  3. #22
    Senior Member
    Macaw Lover's Avatar


    It might almost be better to test her again now, under stress as it would be during that time that she sheds the virus but I would want any further testing by the Schubot Center as they have done a lot of research on this.

    Keep in mind there are so many people that were told their birds were positive for it when in fact it was false positives. That is one of the issues with this disease and has been researched for years. I know of several people that will even refuse to test for it just because it is not a test that is 100% accurate.

    If I was in your shoes right now Kendra I would not be freaking out because of the fact that most of the cases where owners have been told this news but it turns out in the long run that it was not an accurate test. I know, easier said than done but I have read of too many situations like this. Take a few deep breaths, relax and in this case, don't totally believe things especially in light of her not having much contact with other birds and if you have always taken precautions and treated yourself as a 'contaminated' person if you have gone somewhere where there are other bird contact, i.e. going to pet stores, club meetings, fairs, that sort of thing.

  4. The following 4 users like this post:

    Casper's 2nd best friend (02-28-2018), Dragonlady2 (02-28-2018), kendrafitz (02-28-2018), PlaxMacaws (03-01-2018)

  5. #23
    Senior Member
    kendrafitz's Avatar


    Parrots

    Rosie, our Greenwing Macaw (Hatchday 4/1/12)
    Quote Originally Posted by PlaxMacaws View Post
    There is apparently a potential for false positive results on ABV and PDD.

    Which diagnostic method did they use for Rosie? I believe that PCR would produce the most reliable results.

    I fully understand. And Kendra, I wish I were able to be online more. Unfortunately, I've been bogged down beyond reason of late. However, I will follow this thread very closely. Rosie's PDD diagnosis is horribly upsetting for me! I can only imagine how you must be feeling . FWIW, the local hospital almost killed my mother by terminating one of her critical medications without telling us, and leaving her off of the drug for more than three weeks. She's been at this same hospital since December 26, but will be discharged to a care facility within the next few days - irrespective of the fact that she is not at all well because of their negligence. I'm telling you this because I thought I should give you an update on my availability status. Please don't say more about my situation in this thread. Rosie's situation is critically important and all further discussion here should be exclusively about her. Rosie and you are in my thoughts


    The test they used for Rosie was A&E Avian Bornavirus (PDD) DNA - it was done from a blood draw. I believe the is the PCR test? It looks like the DNA testing is what is done in the PCR test. Am I correct in that?

    Thank you again everyone for your help. It really is confusing trying to figure all this out.
    Rosie & Kendra


  6. #24
    Senior Member
    kendrafitz's Avatar


    Parrots

    Rosie, our Greenwing Macaw (Hatchday 4/1/12)
    Quote Originally Posted by Macaw Lover View Post
    It might almost be better to test her again now, under stress as it would be during that time that she sheds the virus but I would want any further testing by the Schubot Center as they have done a lot of research on this.

    Keep in mind there are so many people that were told their birds were positive for it when in fact it was false positives. That is one of the issues with this disease and has been researched for years. I know of several people that will even refuse to test for it just because it is not a test that is 100% accurate.

    If I was in your shoes right now Kendra I would not be freaking out because of the fact that most of the cases where owners have been told this news but it turns out in the long run that it was not an accurate test. I know, easier said than done but I have read of too many situations like this. Take a few deep breaths, relax and in this case, don't totally believe things especially in light of her not having much contact with other birds and if you have always taken precautions and treated yourself as a 'contaminated' person if you have gone somewhere where there are other bird contact, i.e. going to pet stores, club meetings, fairs, that sort of thing.
    I am so clueless on all this Renee. How would I have the testing done with the Schubot Center? Would I have to actually bring her there or could the vet send in blood for testing?

    I had no idea that there were so many false positive test results. I didn't think there were any. So that is somewhat comforting. It just really seems like there are so many unknowns with this virus. I guess there is still a lot to be learned about it.

    Thank you, you are definitely right. I am trying not to freak out too much. I am obviously sad, but there isn't anything I can really do besides love her and make sure she has everything she needs. Rosie is never around other birds and I only visit birds at the store I purchased her from. Except for one other store I had visited. I am religious about washing my hands as soon as I get home from anywhere before getting Rosie out of her cage. And I change clothing immediately as well b/c she puts holes in everything.

    Which is why the only thing I can think of is her getting it genetically, not from another bird. Plus, her immune system hasn't been compromised, so it seems really unlikely for her to catch it from another bird.

    Thank you again for the support. I appreciate it!
    Rosie & Kendra


  7. The following 2 users like this post:

    Dragonlady2 (03-01-2018), PlaxMacaws (03-01-2018)

  8. #25
    Senior Member
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    I also do not know how to contact someone at the Schubot Center as I have never had a need to but start with this link. http://vetmed.tamu.edu/schubot/contact-us

    Just coming home a washing hands is not enough from protecting birds from a virus that might have hitched a ride on you when you go somewhere nor can you 'trust' the store that you purchased her from as you have no idea who has walk into that store and carried something in on their shoes or clothes.

    I know so many people believe all they have to do is wash their hands or places that touched the bird at when they have a bird in quarantine. That is not good enough. Or the people that put a new bird on the other side of the room, keeping them 'separated'. Like that is doing any good but it seems so many people are not as knowledgeable as they should be.

    If I go to a bird fair, I have things in place before I leave. I have a couple pair of Croc's now that work out even better so I leave one pair out in my attached garage and when I come back I strip out there and put things into a bucket and then get them into the laundry after I have had my shower. The shoes I have worn are not brought back into the house until they have been sprayed with F10SC, that is why I have the one pair of Croc's out there waiting for me and when I walk into the shower they come in with me.

    Wash your hair, ears, behind those ears, blow your nose, and scrub under your finger nails and toe nails too if you are wearing open toed shoes.

    Before I walk into the fair I have with me a really large beach towel that I put on my seal and have taken a brown paper shopping bag that I have cut open and put on the floor for my shoes. I will bring a blanket for the back of my mini van in the event I would buy something and have that spread out so all I would have to do is put stuff in. Not like I would be buying something large like a bird cage as I have enough of those already.

    After I have showered I go back out and carefully remove the paper bag being careful to only handle the bottom side of it and pitch that into the garbage can. I spray/wipe anything that I might have touched on the van including the seat belts, radio buttons, door handles and such. The beach towel I fold onto itself like I did with the paper bag and that goes into the laundry with the rest of my clothes. My shoes get sprayed down too.

    If I buy anything at a bird fair, yep, you guessed it, it has to be sprayed down too so cutsie things out of materials like paper are not a consideration. That type of stuff I get at online stores that do not go to fairs and such.

    Some people would think I was crazy when all they think they have to do is wash their hands, but let's face it, diseases are out there and you have no clue if someone has come into a place that has sick birds.

    First couple of times it took me a while to organize how to do things for myself but now I just think Bathroom - make sure I have my wash cloth and towels down there, then prepare the Garage and grab the things I need for the Van.

  9. The following 4 users like this post:

    Dragonlady2 (03-01-2018), kendrafitz (03-01-2018), Lady (03-07-2018), PlaxMacaws (03-01-2018)

  10. #26
    Senior Member
    kendrafitz's Avatar


    Parrots

    Rosie, our Greenwing Macaw (Hatchday 4/1/12)
    Quote Originally Posted by Macaw Lover View Post
    I also do not know how to contact someone at the Schubot Center as I have never had a need to but start with this link. http://vetmed.tamu.edu/schubot/contact-us

    Just coming home a washing hands is not enough from protecting birds from a virus that might have hitched a ride on you when you go somewhere nor can you 'trust' the store that you purchased her from as you have no idea who has walk into that store and carried something in on their shoes or clothes.

    I know so many people believe all they have to do is wash their hands or places that touched the bird at when they have a bird in quarantine. That is not good enough. Or the people that put a new bird on the other side of the room, keeping them 'separated'. Like that is doing any good but it seems so many people are not as knowledgeable as they should be.

    If I go to a bird fair, I have things in place before I leave. I have a couple pair of Croc's now that work out even better so I leave one pair out in my attached garage and when I come back I strip out there and put things into a bucket and then get them into the laundry after I have had my shower. The shoes I have worn are not brought back into the house until they have been sprayed with F10SC, that is why I have the one pair of Croc's out there waiting for me and when I walk into the shower they come in with me.

    Wash your hair, ears, behind those ears, blow your nose, and scrub under your finger nails and toe nails too if you are wearing open toed shoes.

    Before I walk into the fair I have with me a really large beach towel that I put on my seal and have taken a brown paper shopping bag that I have cut open and put on the floor for my shoes. I will bring a blanket for the back of my mini van in the event I would buy something and have that spread out so all I would have to do is put stuff in. Not like I would be buying something large like a bird cage as I have enough of those already.

    After I have showered I go back out and carefully remove the paper bag being careful to only handle the bottom side of it and pitch that into the garbage can. I spray/wipe anything that I might have touched on the van including the seat belts, radio buttons, door handles and such. The beach towel I fold onto itself like I did with the paper bag and that goes into the laundry with the rest of my clothes. My shoes get sprayed down too.

    If I buy anything at a bird fair, yep, you guessed it, it has to be sprayed down too so cutsie things out of materials like paper are not a consideration. That type of stuff I get at online stores that do not go to fairs and such.

    Some people would think I was crazy when all they think they have to do is wash their hands, but let's face it, diseases are out there and you have no clue if someone has come into a place that has sick birds.

    First couple of times it took me a while to organize how to do things for myself but now I just think Bathroom - make sure I have my wash cloth and towels down there, then prepare the Garage and grab the things I need for the Van.
    Thank you for the link, I will check it out.

    Very smart. I think it is awesome how much thought and organization you have put into it. I have never given it that much thought. Just figured changing and washing my hands whenever I get home from anywhere was good enough. It’s horrible that it takes a situation like this to think about being even more cautious. Hopefully someone reading this will learn from your tips. I know I did!!

    I haven’t ever been to a bird fair, but can totally see why a person would want to be super careful.

    With that thought process in mind, I thought I would add something in case you shop online at Bird Paradise. Their stock is at their brick and mortar store. It’s an enormous space. I believe they advertise as over 10,000 sq feet. It is not far from me and it’s where I go if I need something for Rosie quickly. Plus that is where I bought her from so they are very good if I have questions or need help. They usually have tons of birds at the store. All sizes, some in the nursery, some boarding and then in 3 different areas in the store for sale, including the occasional rehome. Plus people bring their birds in for grooming or just to shop. So if you buy items from them you may want to treat them the same way you would items from a bird fair.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Rosie & Kendra


  11. The following 4 users like this post:

    Dragonlady2 (03-01-2018), Lady (03-07-2018), Macaw Lover (03-01-2018), PlaxMacaws (03-01-2018)

  12. #27
    Senior Member
    Macaw Lover's Avatar


    Quite a few years ago on another board, one of the guys realized we lived about 8 or 9 miles away from each other and wanted to know if our birds could have play dates! You can imagine my answer to that one and am still floored to think he was ok with that as he was not exactly new to the bird world.

  13. The following 3 users like this post:

    Dragonlady2 (03-01-2018), kendrafitz (03-01-2018), PlaxMacaws (03-01-2018)

  14. #28
    Senior Member
    PlaxMacaws's Avatar


    Parrots

    B&G (Jack) | MM (Maynard) - RIP | Hy (Zaf) - RIP | GW (Salsa) | NC (Bozley)
    Quote Originally Posted by kendrafitz View Post
    The test they used for Rosie was A&E Avian Bornavirus (PDD) DNA - it was done from a blood draw. I believe the is the PCR test? It looks like the DNA testing is what is done in the PCR test. Am I correct in that?

    Thank you again everyone for your help. It really is confusing trying to figure all this out.
    Kendra: I don't specifically know what an "A&E ABV DNA" test means or would entail. The name clearly implies that it looks at DNA material at some level. You would have to ask the vet or the lab whether it's a PCR test. The best method to test for presence of the infection is RT-PCR (Reverse Transcription Polymerase Chain Reaction). Here's a link to the testing method to which I'm referring: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24518276. The article describes the real-time RT-PCR method vs. the gel-based RT-PCR method.
    He wanted to live. He was my Heaven... He's gone!

  15. The following 3 users like this post:

    Dragonlady2 (03-01-2018), kendrafitz (03-01-2018), Lady (03-07-2018)

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