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Thread: Any info appreciated

 
  1. #1
    Junior Member
    zac_norwood's Avatar


    Any info appreciated

    Just as a little introduction, I am currently in college for a degree in welding in Arkansas, my family owns a small moving company here and the plan was to be a pipeline welder on the road but as I have matured my goals and such have changed and would not enjoy living on the road. I have been researching on if an African grey would fit my life, and if one did I was going through the costs of owning the bird and could not help but notice a lack in American made bird cages that are not 1000+ dollars. The last 2 months basically I have been researching costs, requirements, and specific details on manufacturing bird cages/aviaries and have reached a point where it is time to design the first cage,(thank the lord I took a CAD class last year). What I am looking for is experienced bird owners to help me in finding a way to make my cages unique to the market and also very practical, I figured this was the best way to go about this as I have little to no experience in owning a bird so if there was anything you ever wished out of a cage, or any ideas you have had through the years to make a cage more efficient, clean, or even better for the bird would be much appreciated in my new journey. I am wanting to stick with a steel cage with a powder coating as I do not see the benefit of stainless steel for a cage, please correct me if I am missing something about the benefits of stainless.

  2. The following 3 users like this post:

    Dragonlady2 (03-14-2017), Lady (03-18-2017), PlaxMacaws (03-14-2017)

  3. #2
    Super Moderator
    Dragonlady2's Avatar


    Parrots

    Willy-Eclectus, Oliver-alexandrine, Mookie-Senegal, Bella- Australian King, Joey and Peewee- Barrabands, Peachiegirl-Peachfront conure, Pepper- crimson belly conure, Peanut-plum head, Babyblue-parrotlette, Harry and Louie-canaries.
    Well, with regard to powder coating, I have a Senegal that chewed the paint off his cage and consequently I ended up getting him an aluminum cage. It is lightweight and easy to clean and move around. If you are considering making/ordering one to your specifications, I would consider width as well as height. While in their cage, there are more opportunities if the cage is wide as well as tall to have play/foraging areas that won't be pooped on.
    I will post other ideas when I have a bit more time.
    Good for you, taking the time to research before you get your parrot.

  4. #3
    Junior Member
    zac_norwood's Avatar


    I am actually talking about using my welding degree to start a cage manufacturing company, sorry if I did not specify!

  5. The following user likes this post:

    kendrafitz (03-15-2017)

  6. #4
    Super Moderator
    Dragonlady2's Avatar


    Parrots

    Willy-Eclectus, Oliver-alexandrine, Mookie-Senegal, Bella- Australian King, Joey and Peewee- Barrabands, Peachiegirl-Peachfront conure, Pepper- crimson belly conure, Peanut-plum head, Babyblue-parrotlette, Harry and Louie-canaries.
    Why would you powdercoat stainless steel? Bird owners pay a premium for stainless steel to avoid the paint issue. Just my opinion, check the companies that sell cages and see what the top sellers are and what the feedback is. You could look at incorporating the feedback into the design. Good luck with your designs....I would be interested in what you come up with. Part of the expense for us up in Canada is shipping. If we don't live close to a supplier, the weight and size of the cages can get the price up very quickly.

  7. #5
    Senior Member
    PlaxMacaws's Avatar


    Parrots

    B&G (Jack) | MM (Maynard) - RIP | Hy (Zaf) - RIP | GW (Salsa) | NC (Bozley)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady2 View Post
    Why would you powdercoat stainless steel?
    Hmm, I took Zac's meaning as that he prefers to construct his cages from steel, but not stainless steel. Hence the powder coating requirement. But please correct me if I'm wrong. The benefit of stainless steel is that it affords reasonable assurance of no toxins. Coatings vary in that regard, and without lab testing for specific substances there's always the chance or poisoning one's bird.

    Some things that come to mind about cage features, are:

    The food/water fixtures should be positioned at a height that's neither too low nor too high with regard to nearby perches and maintenance access entry points. With macaws it's very important not to place feeding bays too low in a cage because of the long macaw tails. I've often imagined a center-post, i.e., a vertical column positioned near the cage's center area for mounting food and water containers. One thing that this might do is reduce scatter outside of the cage, since the scattered items would need to travel farther to exit the cage. However, the concept may only be practical with larger bird cages due to room constraints. And then, of course, overcoming the inconvenience of opening the cage to remove and clean the bowls would be another challenge. External bay doors make things much easier in that respect.

    I've also imagined a cage floor grate made from (or coated with) some non-toxic material that would virtually repel the adherence of bird poop, and do so on a perpetual basis. If someone were able to develop such a thing it could prove extremely attractive market-wise.

    Further, bar-spacing per bird size must always be a priority.

    If I can, I'll come up with some other thoughts and post them later.

    Lastly, welcome to our community!
    He wanted to live. He was my Heaven... He's gone!

  8. The following 3 users like this post:

    Dragonlady2 (03-14-2017), Lady (03-18-2017), zac_norwood (03-15-2017)

  9. #6
    Super Moderator
    Dragonlady2's Avatar


    Parrots

    Willy-Eclectus, Oliver-alexandrine, Mookie-Senegal, Bella- Australian King, Joey and Peewee- Barrabands, Peachiegirl-Peachfront conure, Pepper- crimson belly conure, Peanut-plum head, Babyblue-parrotlette, Harry and Louie-canaries.
    Oops, sorry....reread the post regarding steel versus stainless steel. If I was rich I would definitely go with stainless steel, although I do like the aluminum cage as well.

  10. The following 3 users like this post:

    Lady (03-18-2017), PlaxMacaws (03-14-2017), zac_norwood (03-15-2017)

  11. #7
    Super Moderator
    Quakerella's Avatar


    Parrots

    8 quaker parakeets, 4 Indian Ringneck parakeets, 3 lovebirds, 5 cockatiels
    I have to admit, I am a stainless steel fanatic. Cages, toys, water and food dishes, etc. I find the coating wears off or gets chewed off(as you said Helena), then you have to deal with what metal is underneath and that it will rust eventually.

    I've also imagined a cage floor grate made from (or coated with) some non-toxic material that would virtually repel the adherence of bird poop, and do so on a perpetual basis. If someone were able to develop such a thing it could prove extremely attractive market-wise.
    Tony have you tried putting a little, olive oil, coconut oil or red palm oil on a rag and rubbing over the grate. Obviously not enough to make it slippery or dangerous, but maybe this may make it easier to clean.

  12. The following 3 users like this post:

    Lady (03-18-2017), PlaxMacaws (03-15-2017), zac_norwood (03-15-2017)

  13. #8
    Senior Member
    Casper's 2nd best friend's Avatar


    Parrots

    Casper, a blue fronted Amazon. Loves banana. Hates plastic bags and red coats.
    Zac, as someone in the marine manufacturing industry I wouldn't dream of using anything less than 316 (A4 grade) stainless. Obviously in an onshore, away from salt corrosion lesser grades are suitable. Stainless is a material that can be used without any extra finishing so whilst its initial cost maybe higher you can save on downstream.
    Larger parrots, as you know, live a long time and are not keen on having their cages messed with, let alone replaced every few years, so it is always preferable to buy the longest lasting, maintenance free cage that is affordable. I think you should be working on how to manufacture those cages cheaper and win business that way.
    Rather than trying to reinvent the wheel, look at all the good points of other manufacturers and amalgamate all the goodness. Good design of catches on doors and other openings is very important, not only from ease of single handed use by humans (there is likely a parrot on the other arm) but also that a clever bird like an African Grey cannot open and a stupid bird like Casper cannot get his foot caught in. We have a flight cage with sliding bolts on the food tray doors which vibrate open in transit and have had to resort to keeping them closed with sticky tape - bad design!
    Good:
    a mix of vertical and horizontal bars gives a bird the opportunity to slide down and climb up again. A cage is not a prison, it is a gymnasium.
    Bad:
    cage bars so widely space that a bird can get its head stuck, remember that you are designing for a pet with the curiosity of a small child. Different sized birds need different bar spacing.


    I hope this advice helps and good luck with your career. I look forward to being able to buy one of your cages when you start exporting to the UK.
    "A busy beak is a happy beak" - David Strom

  14. The following 5 users like this post:

    Dragonlady2 (03-15-2017), Lady (03-18-2017), PlaxMacaws (03-15-2017), Quakerella (03-15-2017), zac_norwood (03-15-2017)

  15. #9
    Super Moderator
    Dragonlady2's Avatar


    Parrots

    Willy-Eclectus, Oliver-alexandrine, Mookie-Senegal, Bella- Australian King, Joey and Peewee- Barrabands, Peachiegirl-Peachfront conure, Pepper- crimson belly conure, Peanut-plum head, Babyblue-parrotlette, Harry and Louie-canaries.
    Quote Originally Posted by Quakerella View Post
    I have to admit, I am a stainless steel fanatic. Cages, toys, water and food dishes, etc. I find the coating wears off or gets chewed off(as you said Helena), then you have to deal with what metal is underneath and that it will rust eventually.



    Tony have you tried putting a little, olive oil, coconut oil or red palm oil on a rag and rubbing over the grate. Obviously not enough to make it slippery or dangerous, but maybe this may make it easier to clean.
    I have done this with olive oil in a spray can and then wiped with a paper towel. This works especially well with wet food that sticks to the bars.

  16. The following 2 users like this post:

    PlaxMacaws (03-15-2017), Quakerella (03-15-2017)

  17. #10
    Junior Member
    zac_norwood's Avatar


    Thank you everybody for the replies! still on the fence on material because with standard steel comes all the powder coating equipment, and with aluminum or stainless steel comes a much more difficult and costly weld job. What about with the middle feeder if you had a sort of removable stand attached dead center that came up about half way with feeder/waterer with the mounts for a perch on either side of the feeder/waterer, this would make the cage more appealing with 1-2 perches included and also eliminate the need for the angled seed guards around the which I find quite ugly. I really like the mention Casper's owner made about the fact that this is a gymnasium for the animal and that had me thinking about the specific bar spacing and there is no company that sells bird specific cages, so for example if I labeled one as the "ideal African grey cage" a person looking for a cage for an African grey would very easily be able to find my cage through a google search and would not need to spend nearly the time I have researching the recommended cage for their bird, I could have 4-5 cages for say the top 5 most popular birds that would not only provide specific cages for specific birds, but would also allow for similar birds a great environment to live in. Again thank you all for the ideas and support I am getting here, not to common to find an industry with experts readily available to discuss ideas on products.

  18. The following 5 users like this post:

    Casper's 2nd best friend (03-15-2017), Dragonlady2 (03-15-2017), Lady (03-18-2017), PlaxMacaws (03-15-2017), Quakerella (03-16-2017)

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