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Thread: Meet Karma!

 
  1. #11
    Super Moderator
    Dragonlady2's Avatar


    Parrots

    Willy-Eclectus, Oliver-alexandrine, Mookie-Senegal, Bella- Australian King, Joey and Peewee- Barrabands, Peachiegirl-Peachfront conure, Pepper- crimson belly conure, Peanut-plum head, Babyblue-parrotlette, Harry and Louie-canaries.
    Seems like I tend to respond more to the controversial topic area...here goes....Unfortunately for Kim, she came across as nonchalant and insensitive when describing what had happened with her lovebird. Perhaps, the response to her actions might have been tempered if she would have expressed some emotion or feeling of responsibility in her first post.
    I wanted to comment on the size of the forum. Although, I would agree that age of the forum will probably have an impact on size, I believe the consistent, firm and open stance on non support of intermingling of birds with other animals and "flipping", will keep this forum "small" or a better word is manageable.
    Other forums will advise against the above, but those who do advise are outnumbered by people who will support and encourage such practices. In my mind, there is a great divide between people who "own" birds and those that are caregivers. Please remember, these are just my thoughts....owners appear to have less of a spiritual ( for lack of a better word) connection. If you "own" it you have the "right" to do what "you" want with it. If you are the caregiver, provider for the bird, I think there is a different connection and mindset. Rehoming does not come easily and not without lasting regret. Life decisions are made around the bird's needs, whenever possible.
    I support the mission statement of this forum, but too many people will come here and be unable to live with that high a standard because they need too much emotional support and approval from others. Just my thoughts and we don't all have to agree, that's the beauty of being here.

    This probably coming across as being moralistic....comes with old age. I used to be in management working with troubled teen boys. I was pretty clear in my expectations with them although I used a whole lot of humour. Hence the name Dragonlady...was called that lovingly ( I like to believe, lol,)by staff and boys.
    Last edited by Dragonlady2; 05-31-2016 at 03:46 PM. Reason: Addition

  2. The following 4 users like this post:

    Casper's 2nd best friend (05-31-2016), kendrafitz (06-02-2016), Mare (06-01-2016), The Pinkertons (06-01-2016)

  3. #12
    Banned



    I agree with you wholeheartedly Helena...

  4. #13
    Administrator
    plax's Avatar


    Parrots

    Blue & Gold Macaw "Jack" | Military Macaw "Maynard" - RIP | Hyacinth Macaw "Zaffer" - RIP | Green-wing Macaw "Salsa" | Nanday Conure "Bozley"
    I appreciate your thoughts, Dave and Helena.

    While it's difficult to please everyone, the mission of this place is not necessarily to please folks. Instead, it is to serve the best interest of companion birds. I've found that it's impossible to avoid offending a member now and then when stressing the various bird safety philosophy elements we have adopted here. Like it or not, the bottom line on this message board is that bird safety and well-being must be first considerations. The possibility of offending a member and efforts to avoid doing so must be secondary to what's best for captive parrots.

    Helena: I think your assessment is well-stated and I mostly agree with it. I think you're correct that our bird protection views and practices impose a membership-limiting effect. However, I tend to disagree on your point that not having such a policy would have significantly increased our member base and our overall member participation. I say this because when I compare our board to similar boards (i.e., bird boards with comparable member counts and histories, but without our strictness on bird safety issues), I find that they tend not to show more thread activity than we experience here. And some of those boards have existed for a bit longer than us, yet they remain as far from a membership critical mass point and as limited in activity as we do.

    I am convinced that the longest standing forum sites at which enthusiasts of a particular topic first began congregating are the ones that have attained and will thus sustain a critical mass of participants. The effect is that those communities will always be the largest, the most dynamic, and the most attractive to potential new members. Boards like ours are simply unable to compete with such established factors. If a given new interest began to emerge and thus attained popularity among the masses, and if someone then started one of the first discussion boards serving that particular interest, said new board would stand to become the largest on the topic. I think this is a fairly well established law of social dynamics and the Internet

    Thanks for your comments, everyone!
    He wanted to live. He was my Heaven... He's gone!

  5. #14
    Junior Member
    Shyra's Avatar


    Parrots

    TAG, GW
    As a new member here, please allow me to give a different perspective as to why your members continue to leave or at the very least refrain from posting and this group doesn't grow in size. I've only been here a half of dozen times and have seen 4 people leave all for the same reasons. First Kim was criticized for rehoming her birds and getting a new one. Instead of making her feel bad for doing that, why didn't someone nicely explain to her that she needs to be educating herself more about the different types of parrots and their general personalities so that she can make a better choice rather than going through several till she finds a good fit? Then it was mentioned that she should have showed more emotion and people would have posted differently. Seriously??? Maybe not showing emotion is the only way she is able to handle this right now. Or maybe she isn't good at writing about how she feels. Regardless does that give anyone the right to judge her or be critical because they didn't perceive her to be feeling bad enough over her loss? Oh wait, because this is about the safety of birds -- not about educating people on how to keep their birds safe--it's all right to make someone feel like crap so that they want to leave and then pat yourselves on the back because well it's not your fault they couldn't deal with the mission of this group. Nope in no way does the size of this group have anything to do with making people feel like crap.

  6. #15
    Nobility Member
    Mare's Avatar


    Parrots

    Sassy Goffin's girl, she IS Sassy Amigo, male umbrella cockatoo Chip! The cockatiel! The sweet, sweet Jellybean!
    Shyra, I think you are being unfair. I'm guilty of jumping down Kim's throat, I'm not perfect, it was a gut reaction from me and yes..I can sometimes not keep it in. We ALL care about our birds and like a big family, we all react differently. I don't think anyone was trying to be mean, not on purpose, anyways.

  7. #16
    Super Moderator
    Dragonlady2's Avatar


    Parrots

    Willy-Eclectus, Oliver-alexandrine, Mookie-Senegal, Bella- Australian King, Joey and Peewee- Barrabands, Peachiegirl-Peachfront conure, Pepper- crimson belly conure, Peanut-plum head, Babyblue-parrotlette, Harry and Louie-canaries.
    Shyra, I would agree you, that sometimes if the message is kinder, people will tend to stay and listen. If you felt I was critical of Kim's reaction, I am sorry. That was not my intent. I was trying, in my sometimes inept way, to point out that communication can sometimes be the cause for misunderstanding and judgment. I just didn't elaborate enough to finish the thought. I tend to think in point form.
    Internet communication lacks so many of the other components of communication, that at times, the message gets lost. I think if Kim would have posted the events in separate forums ie) bereavement and IRN , perhaps the fallout of mixing it altogether would have been different. Just some thoughts.

  8. The following 2 users like this post:

    kendrafitz (06-02-2016), Mare (05-31-2016)

  9. #17
    Nobility Member
    Mare's Avatar


    Parrots

    Sassy Goffin's girl, she IS Sassy Amigo, male umbrella cockatoo Chip! The cockatiel! The sweet, sweet Jellybean!
    I like your thinking, Helena. If we were all sitting in a room (not a forum room), discussing this..things would have come out differently.

  10. The following user likes this post:

    kendrafitz (06-02-2016)

  11. #18
    Administrator
    plax's Avatar


    Parrots

    Blue & Gold Macaw "Jack" | Military Macaw "Maynard" - RIP | Hyacinth Macaw "Zaffer" - RIP | Green-wing Macaw "Salsa" | Nanday Conure "Bozley"
    Quote Originally Posted by Shyra View Post
    As a new member here, please allow me to give a different perspective as to why your members continue to leave or at the very least refrain from posting and this group doesn't grow in size. I've only been here a half of dozen times and have seen 4 people leave all for the same reasons. First Kim was criticized for rehoming her birds and getting a new one. Instead of making her feel bad for doing that, why didn't someone nicely explain to her that she needs to be educating herself more about the different types of parrots and their general personalities so that she can make a better choice rather than going through several till she finds a good fit? Then it was mentioned that she should have showed more emotion and people would have posted differently. Seriously??? Maybe not showing emotion is the only way she is able to handle this right now. Or maybe she isn't good at writing about how she feels. Regardless does that give anyone the right to judge her or be critical because they didn't perceive her to be feeling bad enough over her loss? Oh wait, because this is about the safety of birds -- not about educating people on how to keep their birds safe--it's all right to make someone feel like crap so that they want to leave and then pat yourselves on the back because well it's not your fault they couldn't deal with the mission of this group. Nope in no way does the size of this group have anything to do with making people feel like crap.
    A little bird is brutally and unnecessarily slaughtered by a vicious predator and you feel that a friendly and soft effort should have been made to explain to that little bird's custodian the very thing that has been repeated on this board over and over, infinitum, and which exists throughout our published policy documents (which each of our members should be well familiar with)? If that sort of a response stood much chance to produce a positive result, it would indeed be a wonderful thing. But unfortunately, in this world, it doesn't.

    I have been active among and/or observed many pet discussion communities through the years. Thereby, I have witnessed a great many approaches for attempting to get through to folks who recklessly facilitate dangerous situations for their pets. There have been the courteous and kind suggestion approaches. There have been the subtle remark approaches. There have been the detailed personal view approaches. And there have been the grim reality approaches. Guess which ones nearly always render avoidant responses from the individuals they're directed towards and are typically ignored by future readers of the threads? You got it... the first 3. While the last approach option typically will not win over the person to which it is aimed, it will leave a permanent record of the harsh truth to shock the conscience of thread readers thereafter. Some of those readers will heed the impactful warning, which may well save a few innocent pets from unnecessary maiming or death thereafter.

    I'll preface what I'm about to say next by telling you that I take no enjoyment in injuring anyone's feelings. In fact, it's painful for me to do so. However, when someone is more concerned about assaulting human feelings than they are about the need for harsh warnings to protect as many innocent pets as possible from preventable accidents, then their values are vastly different from my own. And I might add that I vehemently disagree with their priorities! Simply put, being flowery and friendly with metered explanations doesn't work! I've seen it not work too many times. Folks either ignore those efforts altogether, or say thank you and change the subject, or say something similar to: "I know what's safe for my own pet(s)... I'd appreciate it if you would mind your own business!" It's entirely futile. In an ideal world filled with logical thinkers, such an approach could be effective. But not in this one. The only option is to shock the conscience and hope it impacts some folks to make a positive change in their practices.

    As far as traffic levels on discussion board sites, what I have stated in my previous reply is the proven mechanism which most affects both the size of a message board's member base and the percentage of said base that is active. I've observed the dynamics involved very closely for a number of years and the element I've described has proven out as the greatest determinant affecting popularity and traffic. I'm sure you would prefer to believe otherwise since you're clearly angry and offended. But all of the evidence from my long-term observation indicates that the gist of your theory has significantly less overall effect upon member count and participation levels among new message boards than what 'getting in on the ground floor' with an emerging interest group will do for them. When there are already message boards serving an interest group and they have existed for a long while, there is nothing a newcomer board can do to level the situation.
    He wanted to live. He was my Heaven... He's gone!

  12. #19
    Junior Member
    Shyra's Avatar


    Parrots

    TAG, GW
    Mare, what you gave was a gut reaction, so was my reply but you consider mine to be unfair. Perception is everything and that is exactly my point. And No, Tony, I don't think it's good that a bird got killed by a dog. But it's obvious that Kim didn't let the dog get the bird on purpose just like a lot of other accidents have happened to birds for preventable reasons. As Mare pointed out no one is perfect. As Helena also pointed out that internet communication is hard to translate the emotion needed to get the right point across. What I was trying to convey had more to do with why I think the the membership is so low here verses other forums. Look at this from my point of view as someone who doesn't know anyone here well. The first thread I followed someone was showing off a toy she bought and that ended in hurt feelings and three people leaving the group because of criticism. Then Kim's excited about a bird she got, yes there was a lot wrong with the circumstances, but as an outsider all I see is more criticism resulting in another member leaving. Both times it's wrote off as bird safety as the only thing that matters. Yes it's important but if the people who need to learn about bird safety the most don't stick around birds aren't being helped which defeats the biggest point of these groups. There is a reason the membership is declining rather than growing. Is it unfair of me to make these assumptions, perhaps. I'm very thick skinned but it doesn't make me want to start a new thread or post anything that's going on with my flock. Tony, as far as shocking people with harsh truths go, I think people are going to listen or they are not but the people who want to learn how to do what's best for their birds will stick around to learn if they aren't worried they'll be attacked for doing something through ignorance.

    I think it's pretty obvious from my few posts here that this forum is not a good fit for me so this will be my last post. I do wish y'all the best.

  13. The following user likes this post:

    Mare (05-31-2016)

  14. #20
    Nobility Member
    Mare's Avatar


    Parrots

    Sassy Goffin's girl, she IS Sassy Amigo, male umbrella cockatoo Chip! The cockatiel! The sweet, sweet Jellybean!
    Shyra, I'm sorry you feel this way..go kick some butt on Avian Avenue!! . They REALLY need your help! I'm being completely serious.
    Last edited by Mare; 05-31-2016 at 11:17 PM.

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