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Thread: Too Much

 
  1. #1
    Nobility Member
    spiritbird's Avatar


    Parrots

    Lineated Parakeet named Kobe (M) and (F) named Tango Maine Coon Kitty named Christine

    Too Much

    Because of recent inflammatory writings about TNT toys and the owner (Jen) I have decided I no longer want to be part of this forum. Goodbye to my long time friends here.

  2. #2
    Administrator
    plax's Avatar


    Parrots

    Blue & Gold Macaw "Jack" | Military Macaw "Maynard" - RIP | Hyacinth Macaw "Zaffer" - RIP | Green-wing Macaw "Salsa" | Nanday Conure "Bozley"
    Quote Originally Posted by spiritbird View Post
    Because of recent inflammatory writings about TNT toys and the owner (Jen) I have decided I no longer want to be part of this forum. Goodbye to my long time friends here.
    Dianne: I'm sorry you feel that way. In my view, bird safety and relevant warnings involving such are significantly more important than friendships and peoples' personal sensitivities. When we place the value of our human relationships above the safety concerns of our cherished pets, something is wrong. My warning about the brittle plastics for use with large birds is warranted. We can't pretend that the risk doesn't exist just to keep friends and maintain supply sources for our own birds if/when they happen to not be affected by the problem with said materials. The current situation here is a near replay of the 'pet bird intermingling with predator animal' avoidance issue from 2014, in that some folks seem to feel that human friendships/relationships should take priority over doing what's safest for our beloved pets in terms of safety protocol enforcement. I will never condone that. Valid safety warnings will always be the priority at Precisely Parrots. But since you have decided to leave us, I must say that I am truly sorry to see you go.
    He wanted to live. He was my Heaven... He's gone!

  3. #3
    Nobility Member
    Mare's Avatar


    Parrots

    Sassy Goffin's girl, she IS Sassy Amigo, male umbrella cockatoo Chip! The cockatiel! The sweet, sweet Jellybean!
    Oh, NOOO...don't leave, Dianne . You are so important to all of us!


    Tony...what did you DO..?..?!
    Last edited by Mare; 05-17-2016 at 03:43 PM.

  4. #4
    Member
    LunaLovebird's Avatar


    Tony, I find your post to be completely disingenuous. For one thing, you have now shifted the goal posts from your originally statement, which was simply that you did not find hard plastic to be safe. You did not specify for big birds at all at that point, and that point was what Jen and others disagreed with. Secondly, you have misrepresented what others have said. No one was in any way placing the value of human wants above that of the needs of their bird.

    My posting here had wound down some time ago because of problems I had with this forum that I did not choose to disclose. Unfortunately, I do not feel that these are issues that will be resolved, which is fine. Others clearly enjoy being here. It is your forum and you will run it as you choose, which I can respect, but I for one will no longer be participating.

  5. #5
    Administrator
    plax's Avatar


    Parrots

    Blue & Gold Macaw "Jack" | Military Macaw "Maynard" - RIP | Hyacinth Macaw "Zaffer" - RIP | Green-wing Macaw "Salsa" | Nanday Conure "Bozley"
    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLovebird View Post
    Tony, I find your post to be completely disingenuous. For one thing, you have now shifted the goal posts from your originally statement, which was simply that you did not find hard plastic to be safe. You did not specify for big birds at all at that point, and that point was what Jen and others disagreed with. Secondly, you have misrepresented what others have said. No one was in any way placing the value of human wants above that of the needs of their bird.

    My posting here had wound down some time ago because of problems I had with this forum that I did not choose to disclose. Unfortunately, I do not feel that these are issues that will be resolved, which is fine. Others clearly enjoy being here. It is your forum and you will run it as you choose, which I can respect, but I for one will no longer be participating.
    That's entirely your choice, Kylie. But I have no idea how you can consider it relevant that I didn't mention the bird size that's most at risk in my initial reply to the thread. What I stated in that initial post (post #4) was actually "My concern is that many birds will shatter or bite bits off of those and potentially ingest some of the shards." I didn't specify the size details at that point because I was not planning on the topic turning into the major ordeal that it has in fact become. Instead, I planned to express my warning post and be done with the matter. And, mind you, said statement that I expressed was a very valid warning despite that it didn't contain bird size specifics. It could have been simply read and noted by all; however, Dianne and Shyra essentially proceeded to lambast my opinion with their two posts that followed. So in my following reply post (post #7), I pointed out that the main concern was regarding larger birds by both including the following quote taken from one of Dianne's links:

    Quote Originally Posted by plax View Post
    When considering toys with plastic components a bird owner must consider the nature of the plastic component (i.e., soft vs. brittle) relative to the size of the bird. Brittle plastics should not be given to larger birds because when they break very sharp, cutting edges are formed and if swallowed accidentally could result in ruptured organs. Hard plastic toys specifically designed for parakeets and cockatiels should not be given to larger birds with the beak power to destroy them.


    ...and as well prefacing my description with the following statement:

    Quote Originally Posted by plax View Post
    I have large macaws. Large macaws will often shatter brittle plastic/acrylic objects.


    Again, that was in the second reply post that I submitted to the thread. In my view that well qualifies as a clear indication that my main concern with the plastic parts becoming fractured was for larger parrots. But you know something, Kylie... it doesn't really matter because the warning is important enough that it shouldn't initially have to be as specific as you are indicating! It's always best to get a warning such as this one out promptly in short form so it becomes acknowledged as soon as possible by as many folks as possible. The specifics can always follow. I try to err on the side of caution, meaning: it's far better not to take the chance at all with a product that can prove very dangerous for certain birds than to attempt to accurately assess variable details mentioned within an information-packed warning when said information may or may not be able to be applied to one's bird correctly. The details can be researched and weighed later. And in this case, I provided some of those details within my very next reply post.

    Personally, Kylie, I think you are nit-picking on a very important message that needed to be stated. Do you know for a fact that a Sulfur-crested Cockatoo, like Michelle's Charlie, cannot muster enough power to fracture one of those hard plastic parts given all possible situations? I don't. But I suspect some individuals of the species may be able to do so. Again, I like to err on the side of caution and get the warning out! And just so you know, although I care about injured human feelings, I believe that avoiding them should never take priority over bird safety concerns. Bird safety should always be the priority! When friendships among forum members here and/or with other bird enthusiasts cloud concern for important bird safety awareness, I'm going to step in (if and when I can) to force that safety awareness to the forefront. I can't force anyone to see the merit in various warnings and place the gist of those warnings above what may be more comfortable for them personally or socially. But I can press those warnings here even when they may intrude upon friendships, convenience, or profit and thus cause resentment enough among various members that they opt to leave our community (such as is the case with yourself and Dianne - and likely some others).

    The bottom line is that I was NOT inconsistent or disingenuous -as you've claimed- and the warning at issue is a very valid one that should be heeded by all bird guardians who either currently have, or may at some point become involved with birds who are capable of breaking the plastic toy parts. We went through a very similar scenario here in 2014 in which our staff members ignored our bird safety protocol and a firestorm among our active member base ensued. Many folks sided with those staff people who were ignoring the protocol and thus conspired to draw as many members away from PP's community as they could. So I'm well familiar with the social cliquishness that at times tends to prevail over what's right and proper, even when it comes to bird safety.
    He wanted to live. He was my Heaven... He's gone!

  6. #6
    Super Moderator
    Lady's Avatar


    Parrots

    Illiger Macaw (Primolius maracana)
    Oh my

  7. The following user likes this post:

    lolsavannahh (05-18-2016)

  8. #7
    Senior Member
    mdg1109's Avatar


    Parrots

    Charlie-2 year old lesser sulphur crested citron cockatoo Peanut -1 year old White Bellied Caique
    Dianne, please do not leave us I truly value your input and your guidance and your joy that you bring to the forum.

    I do not understand why we have to pick at each other or attack others, I am truly starting to wonder about posting anything on here and just looking at it for information to learn about my fid.

    Everyone has a right to express there opinion but there is a way of doing so respectfully without making others feel attacked.

    Dianne I truly hope you do not leave and Savannah I hope you reconsider.

  9. The following 3 users like this post:

    kendrafitz (05-18-2016), lolsavannahh (05-18-2016), Mare (05-19-2016)

  10. #8
    Senior Member
    lolsavannahh's Avatar


    Parrots

    1 1/2 year old DNA tested male Lovebird- Nash
    Glad my opinion was removed from that post up there about recent events, glad to see my assumption was right, this is a totalitarianism. I never mentioned anyone's name or called anyone any kind of mean word I simply said that we should talk about birds and not argue about silly things.







    Admin Edit:
    Moved from inappropriate forum section - by plax
    http://www.preciselyparrots.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3935&d=1458826196

  11. #9
    Senior Member
    lolsavannahh's Avatar


    Parrots

    1 1/2 year old DNA tested male Lovebird- Nash
    I agree completely Michele! What's the point of posting m opinion on here it it will be removed or ridiculed by even the owner of this site. I love PP but it's starting to become more of a dictatorship instead of the nice system we had before. Everyone is too opinionated and goes about it all in the wrong ways. No point in posting if nobody will read it because it got deleted!!!

    Sorry to voice my opinion and call people out which I rarely do, but I am disappointed in what this forum is coming to. I agree our birds health should come before all else but there were different ways you could have gone about dealing with the TNT toys situation, Tony, and in my opinion you have lost a lot of good members because of it. I'm not saying to ignore potentially dangerous situations, I'm just saying we should all try to be more civil.
    http://www.preciselyparrots.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3935&d=1458826196

  12. #10
    Administrator
    plax's Avatar


    Parrots

    Blue & Gold Macaw "Jack" | Military Macaw "Maynard" - RIP | Hyacinth Macaw "Zaffer" - RIP | Green-wing Macaw "Salsa" | Nanday Conure "Bozley"
    Quote Originally Posted by lolsavannahh View Post
    I agree completely Michele! What's the point of posting m opinion on here it it will be removed or ridiculed by even the owner of this site. I love PP but it's starting to become more of a dictatorship instead of the nice system we had before. Everyone is too opinionated and goes about it all in the wrong ways. No point in posting if nobody will read it because it got deleted!!!

    Sorry to voice my opinion and call people out which I rarely do, but I am disappointed in what this forum is coming to. I agree our birds health should come before all else but there were different ways you could have gone about dealing with the TNT toys situation, Tony, and in my opinion you have lost a lot of good members because of it. I'm not saying to ignore potentially dangerous situations, I'm just saying we should all try to be more civil.
    Savannah is referring to some remarks that she included within a thread starter post that she recently published in the Training section. I deleted those remarks and then PM'd her about them. She replied to my PM, essentially stating the same complaints she has expressed herein. Since she has misinterpreted the situation and carried that misinterpretation into this thread, I'm pasting the verbatim text from my private response to her, below.

    Quote Originally Posted by plax
    Savannah: If you would have posted your remarks in one of the threads relevant to the issue, or if you had started a new thread in the Controversial Topics section, I would not have removed the content. It did not belong in the Training forum. The fact that you appeared to be criticizing the very thing you were doing was not a factor in my decision to edit. So it was not censorship.

    Your comments have been duly noted. But when someone obstructs bird safety rules simply because they feel that a warning was not presented in a friendly enough way, that's placing social expectation ahead of the good faith intent behind the warning. Bird safety is the priority on this message board. If people don't like the way I word things, that's akin to criticizing one's grammar. I consider both attitudes to be rude and disrespectful. I am who I am, and that includes my personality and inclinations. That's true of everyone; we can't all be the same in terms of tact and the ability to meet social expectation. There should not be a requirement that everyone voicing a legitimate warning or concern meet the "niceness" criteria before they are taken seriously. If there is, then in my opinion the values of many folks are mixed up.
    He wanted to live. He was my Heaven... He's gone!

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