I want to train my birds but...

[hypershadic11]

Edit: I found spots of injury on their bodies after examining them... I'm not ready for something like this. These guys need an expert hand, not an amateur's. As soon as I can, I'm going to put them in an adoption home, or some sort of rescue place, then getting a different bird if I can, as I'm very new to owning a bird (not necessarily animals) and feel these two might be a little more than a handful. I'm still willing... To take care of them. Don't get me wrong... But... If you can tell me what you think is the best course of action for this situation, I would appreciate it. It'd hurt my heart for sure to let them go, as I've grown to really like them (even if it's not a shared view) but am willing to do what it takes to let them be happy. I need opinions... Ugh...
THEY WON'T LET ME! It's a very frustrating ordeal... I've heard that you need to get their wings clipped before you do anything, but to do that, they have to trust me... I can't get them to trust me. I've taken a very calm approach, and of course, it didn't work very well. They absolutely HATE- and I emphasize very highly HATE when my hand gets in the same ROOM as them, lead alone just sitting next to the door of their cage.
I got them from my grandma, who got them from my aunt, who got them from total strangers. I think they were treated pretty poorly. They refuse to leave their cage, ever... And tbh, if I was them, I'd want to leave it. Because when we got them... That thing was HOLY **** bad! Pun intended?... Yeah, anyway, the previous owners didn't learn to clean their cage. There were ****ing SPIDER EGGS IN THE BOTTOM, AND MAGGOTS EVERYWHERE!
It took about 2 hours to clean the whole thing... But it was very stressful. And getting them out wasn't easy either... I had to coax them in to another cage with food, and then clean their old one, (which took forever because those two are dumber than rocks) then once again PUT THEM BACK INTO THEIR OLD CAGE FROM THE NEW ONE! Those two... Are so dumb lol I get they're just animals but... Ugh. Their trainer must've SERIOUSLY effed them up big time, because when they actually do know something, they're too scared to try it. Poor... Poor things. ;-;
I've got two of them, a boy and a girl.. I think so anyway... They're pearl lutino cockatiel's of the same breed, which almost leads me to believe they're siblings, but idk... God I hope they don't have misbred babies or something, and actually, if they are related, I hope they don't mate at all... But there's not much I can do about that.
ANYWHO, all of this leads me to believe they were abused... Poor things... they were living in a dump, and were never let out of their cage. They didn't even clean their water bowl! If I knew who that was, I'd kick him or her in the chest.
Getting off topic, sorry~ I just don't know what to do... I'd have to wait at least a month to get their wings clipped at a vet, so is there anything I can do to get them to just calm down around me and gain their trust until then?

[Dragonlady2]

Welcome to Precisely Parrots! Thanks for trying to help these poor birds. I think they will take some time before they are ready for human interaction. Clipping their wings won't necessarily make it easier to train them. As well, because they are a pair, it makes it even more difficult.
Your first action should be taking them to an avian vet. If you have noticed injuries and they were living in an infested cage, there may be immediate health issues that need to be addressed before trying to tame them.
Once they have received a clean bill of health, you could begin building a relationship with them. Training will be very difficult without a trusting relationship.
Please let us know how it goes.

[Casper's 2nd best friend]

You are doing well but are just worried that you have taken on more than you can cope with. These birds need someone to love and care for them. They are not going to get that at a rescue centre so I think you have to stand up and be counted.
Their cages need to be regularly cleaned and disinfected with F10 or a similar bird safe substance. If you can get the cages outside and give them a good going over with a pressure washer first (without the birds inside the cage of course :) ) that will certainly get rid of a lot of the grot.
Please, please, please get them inspected by an avian qualified vet and as Helena wrote, do not clip their wings as it will not help. I'm sure the vets will let you pay by installments if money is a problem.
Do keep us up to date and feel free to ask questions if there is anything you are unsure of.

[hypershadic11]

Thank you both for trying to help me out, I'm not exactly able to go to a vet anytime soon, but I will as soon as I am able to. It's not a money problem, (though I suppose it stems from a money problem) I just have no way of getting there at the moment. I don't have a car, so getting there would require a 50 mile bike ride to the nearest town with a vet. I can get a ride next week, but honestly seeing those two in pain really hurts my heart.
And I'm not a bum or anything... I've been able to do everything I need to for the birds, and the suggestions really won't put much of a dent in my wallet. So no problems there. But at the moment, due to unforeseen circumstances, I don't have a car... And securing a ride is a little more difficult than I thought it would be. But moving on:
So the reason I want their wings clipped is not because I want to indefinitely train them- but because it's also a way to gain their trust a little more... I mean if I let them know where they are, and allow them to explore the house for a little bit (Without them trying to fly out a window) then I'm thinking hopefully they might be a little less skiddish.
Anyway, back on topic, I've called several vets recently and plan to take them both very soon, trust me... But it might be a week or so... Do either of you have any suggestions for trust building? I've cooked them some treats out of oats, honey, and egg that I read was very healthy for them to eat, and delicious but... Neither of them are hardly looking at it. So I can throw that out the window for trust building. -_- Ugh... I'm very limited on what I can do health-wise, and trust-wise at the moment, but I'm still willing to try anything.
Is there anything you've done with your birds to gain a lot of trust?
Oh and thank you both for the help, I really... Really need it, haha.
Ugh.

[Dragonlady2]

To start with, just sit beside them and read out loud. Get them used to your voice and presence.
Try eating your meal beside them. My birds like to eat at the same time and share my food as well. You could place some bits of fruit on your plate and offer it to them through the cage bars.
If they start to come down to where you are sitting to see what you are doing, that's a step in the right direction.

[hypershadic11]

Oh wow, good idea. I've just been sticking my hand in their cage, just at the door to get them at least used to that.
I actually made some progress with that just a moment ago, and was able to talk them down when they started freaking out... Thank God.
Anyway, I'm literally grabbing a book right now lol thank you so much for the suggestion! :D
Here's hoping that it'll work.
Edit: It did not. They squawked... So loud. I couldn't even get a sentence in. I read 30 pages of two different books, they just didn't like the sound of my voice.
They were IMMENSELY freaked out by it all. They didn't check to see what I was doing, they ran from me like what I was holding wasn't a book, but a butcher's knife. Geez... This is gonna be tough. Gonna try eating next to them... See what they do about that.
Edit #2: ([Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks]) I tried it... They weren't freaked out by my presence this time, as I guess I wasn't talking... They seemed pretty calm, but they wouldn't eat what I was offering. So... Mission fail? Though one did walk a little closer to me, trying to see what I had. So... I'll give it a 70%
Gonna keep trying over the next few days... I'll leave updates.

[Dragonlady2]

I would keep trying with the food. You have already made progress if they made a move toward you to see what you were eating. You may have to do this for weeks. You aren't going to be able to undo what has happened to them. Progress is that they can tolerate your presence without freaking out. Think of them as wild birds....although, you may be able to eventually gain some trust, it will take longer with them.

[Quakerella]

Wow! You seem to be doing a great job with what has been handed to you.

I find cockatiels come around quite quickly, even the most wild ones seem to start to gain trust quicker that a lot of other birds.
They are extremely inquisitive. All great advice and you seem to be doing everything right. The more they see and hear you the better. It may take a month or two, but I believe they will eventually start to show trust. Keep at it and see what the vet says about the injuries.

Some cockatiels are prone to night frights and some of the injuries could be due to the thrashing in the cage. A small night light helps if you run in to this issue.

[hypershadic11]

Thank you all for the support and help I've received so far, it's really helping me out :D
I forgot to mention something before: They're names are Lihra and Jake..... Lihra because I wanted it to have a unique name, and Jake because... I know a guy named Jake. And he's a total *******... That's why he's named Jake. Which leads me to this update!
So quick update... That I find quite troubling...
Lihra is very cool with my hand being in her cage now... Jake is also to a certain extent. I can even move it and up down in the middle without them freaking out, so they're fine with me doing whatever. But uh... Jake has a very big influence on Lihra. I noticed this when I tried to move my hand an inch closer... Lihra was like: "Ok... I'm ok with this" but Jake was like: "HEY HEY! TOO CLOSE! TOO- TOO... AHHHHHHHHHH-!" Which in turn freaked Lihra out big time... Ugh... And of course, Jake is a HUGE bully. No matter what Lihra does, he will peck the **** out of her. Eating? Jake wants to eat more *Jake takes out a sunflower seed, then walks back up, like he's not hungry anymore... Lihra wants to eat again... OH BUT JAKE IS STARVING!* Lol I know there's not really much I can do about this. And I'm not gonna punish Jake or love him any less for this, I just... Does anyone have any idea what to do about this? I'd like for them to get along, but should I just get another cage? It might honestly make things easier on them and me. Or could they just be playing? I know all animals play, so I might just be over reacting.
And if I am, then sorry lol but anyway... I made progress! Quite a big amount actually...
You're right though, Cockatiel's do warm up pretty quickly.
Oh and what do you think about my name Lihra? (Lie-ruh) I know it's quite strange, but I really like it.
P.S. I've noticed the injury marks are only on Lihra... Go figure.

[Casper's 2nd best friend]

Do you think that Jake is causing Lihra's injuries? I wonder about this because you say he is a bit of a bully. If that is the case then perhaps separate cages might be sensible, at least for a while to see how it pans out.
I think you can get cages with removable dividers. As we only have one bird I have never had to look into this.
Nice names :)

[Dragonlady2]

Lihra is a very pretty name. I agree with getting a second cage. You can set them up side by side. You will have much better success training them if you are only working with one bird at a time. One thing to remember is that when you stick your hand in their cage, you are entering the only "safe" place they have. That's why they react the way they do. Take things slow and easy and give them the time they need to settle in and to get to know you. They have had so many changes.

[hypershadic11]

AHHHHHHHHHHHH! LIHRA'S OUT OF HER CAGE!!! WHAT DO I DO?! I DON'T HAVE A PHONE WITH ME I LET SOMEONE BORROW IT I CAN'T CALL ANYONE! SHE WON'T LET ME COME NEAR HER, SHE STARTS FLYING ALL OVER THE PLACE!!! **** **** **** WHAT DO I DO HELP!
I've tried calming her down, I've tried giving her food, I've walking out and just letting things happen... SHE KEEPS SLAMMING INTO WALLS!! I THINK SHE MAY BE INJURED, I CAN'T FIND HER NOW, AND SHE'S NOT CHIRPING ANYMORE!!! THIS COULD BE BAD! I CAN'T EVEN CALL EMERGENCY VET SERVICES!
Please, someone tell me what to do!! Damn it, I hate this situation.. ****
Edit: **** I got lucky... The person who borrowed my phone came over...
I immediately called a vet, and did what she told me to do. Her advice was to throw a towel over her head and gently grab her... Luckily she wasn't injured, and everything's looking good now... But man.. That was terrifying... I never thought I'd be so intimidated by a bird flying over my head.
But this did help me understand what it's like for something unknown to invade my safe space... I lost a lot of trust points today with Lihra, she was just so freaked out and so was I that I couldn't even see straight...
Ugh... What... What a day... She's back safely in her cage now... And I'm so thankful...
Gonna have to do a lot to earn back her trust AGAIN....
Anyway... I feel like this at least had some upsides... She at least got to explore and learn about where she was a little bit more...
And I learned what it was like when something invades my personal space... But still...
Gonna take a while to earn her trust again. Great.

[Dragonlady2]

Thank goodness you were able to get Lihra back in her cage. How did she get out? Better keep a towel handy in case it happens again.
Earning a bird's trust is a journey. Sometimes there are curves in the road. I am sure she will be fine.

[hypershadic11]

Well... I took the bottom part of their cage out (It just slides out from under the bars) to refill it with cleaner newspapers... And I had already accidentally left the door open from cleaning their food and water bowls... So when I came back in, I found Lihra on the cage door (Which really shocked me, since they NEVER go near the door, always above it) and tried to run to it as fast as I could to shut it before she could fly off, but... This startled her big time. She immediately took off and started going crazy in my room.
Luckily I shut the door before Jake got any bright ideas... But... Lihra was free. Ugh.
What a day... It was quite tiring.
Uh... Right after I typed this, I noticed some strange behavior from Lihra....
She can't drink from her water bowl, but she usually has no problem with it... Weird...
They have to bend over to reach their bowls, from a higher stick... Which usually isn't a problem, and they can do it pretty easily, either that or they just hop on to the bowls, as they're mounted on tight... But I noticed Lihra's having trouble keeping balance... She can't drink anything, and her wing's spread, and... Huh... I'll have to tell the vet about this.
Oh and luckily, I was able to have them keep calm with my hand in their cage again for a few seconds, and was able to award them with some treats.

[Casper's 2nd best friend]

Strangely, Casper's first introduction to Margaret was when, after about half an hour of trying to persuade him to move from the tiny cage he had been trapped in for ten years into a new superduper luxury cage, she just reached in and grabbed him. (She is very brave). We then spent several weeks trying to find a suitable family for him to live with before he decided that Margaret was his new best friend, flying for the first time in ten years across a room to land on her shoulder and we realised we were now the guardians of a parrot that we had no knowledge of how to care for.
So the reason for that long and rambling story (which others may have read before) is to point out that sometimes being forceful with them works out and they respect you for being flock captain.

[hypershadic11]

Well thank you lol but I've had to use some force as well a couple of times for cage cleaning...
When coaxing them out with food didn't work, I just fished them out pretty much......
Of course... I didn't leave them freaked out. And I took extreme care not to hurt them... I pretty much caught them, and then held them for a while whistling to them, trying to keep them as calm as possible, and petting their heads.
But... I need to get their beaks trimmed... And claws... Because their bites hurt like hell lol...
I'm just...
So happy everything is working out though.
I didn't think I was gonna be able to take care of these two... But things are actually looking good. Thank you, everyone who came to help me out in my crisis, lol.
I'll try to keep you all updated for when we go to the vet.

[hypershadic11]

Finally, FINALLY got some news from a vet... The two are perfectly fine, thank goodness.... I got some spray millet, and cuttlebone for the two so they can have a better diet... Plus bought them a toy so they're not sitting in a boring cage all day long with each other.. After that Jake just kind of stopped beating up Lihra and started beating the crap out of the toy XD it still happens every now and again, Jake's a bit of a bully... But like... Once every day maybe.
I'm going back in a week or so to get the bird's wings clipped, and their nails trimmed... And AWESOME update!!!!! I got Lihra (not jake the little brat) to eat from my hand!!! It... Was awesome lol
The vet told me to talk to them, as they're actually very social birds... And when I do they just kind of ... Stop moving lol and just kind of look at me without panicking or anything, and just kind of listen XD I think it's adorable lol
ANYWAY! They're LOVING the spray millet and cuttlebone I got for them, they're eating that **** up..... A little too fast... And now I'm wondering... (If anyone here is still following this thread) how often and how much should I feed them spray millet to keep them at a healthy diet? Because I put two in there... And they ate it all pretty much in one day. They love that **** man.....
Any advice on that? Lol

[Casper's 2nd best friend]

Hey :) great news. Some of us here are against wing clipping but realise that for certain situations it may be necessary. The good news is that it isn't permanent so after you have tried them with their wings clipped you may decide that when they moult the clipped feathers you don't need to get it done again.
Maybe just get the males wings clipped so that the female can escape when set upon.
Millet, not sure about how often, someone else will be able to advise.

[Dragonlady2]

A small sprig of millet is fine, however, as with all seed, moderation is the key. Fresh food and pellets are the best options with seed as a snack.
Great work on gaining Lihra's trust!

[hypershadic11]

I've heard about the whole debate with wing clipping.... I'm slightly against it, but at this point if I don't do it, I won't be able to let them out of their cage without them flying into walls and everything else... They'll grow back, so honestly, like you said, I'm halfway fine with it since the situation calls for it.
About the millet, I'm thinking (for moderations sake) every two days at night after they've finished their bowl, I'll cut one in half, and hang it from the top of their cage. That'll save me money and keep them balanced... I hope lol...

[Casper's 2nd best friend]

Excellent attitude - you can't have your millet till you've eaten all your greens. I was brought up that way. :)

[PandJY]

Oh wow, good idea. I've just been sticking my hand in their cage, just at the door to get them at least used to that.
I actually made some progress with that just a moment ago, and was able to talk them down when they started freaking out... Thank God.
Anyway, I'm literally grabbing a book right now lol thank you so much for the suggestion! :D
Here's hoping that it'll work.
Edit: It did not. They squawked... So loud. I couldn't even get a sentence in. I read 30 pages of two different books, they just didn't like the sound of my voice.
They were IMMENSELY freaked out by it all. They didn't check to see what I was doing, they ran from me like what I was holding wasn't a book, but a butcher's knife. Geez... This is gonna be tough. Gonna try eating next to them... See what they do about that.
Edit #2: ([Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks]) I tried it... They weren't freaked out by my presence this time, as I guess I wasn't talking... They seemed pretty calm, but they wouldn't eat what I was offering. So... Mission fail? Though one did walk a little closer to me, trying to see what I had. So... I'll give it a 70%
Gonna keep trying over the next few days... I'll leave updates.

I too am a novice here, so I can't really help but I have to say that your birds are probably the luckiest birds in the world. They were neglected all of their lives and now they have someone who wants to make their world a better place! You have started and you will be successful. I just imagine it will take oodles of patience, from you, to allow for them to come to trust you.

when we got our first bird he was nippy - my daughter pointed out that if we don't interact with him because he is nippy all he will do is sit in the cage and be nasty. That may be what happened with your birds. `You just need time to socialize them. Good luck!

[hypershadic11]

Casper- Lol same dude, eat your greens, do your chores, actually LISTEN to your parents....... God those were better days XD

PandJY - Thank you! My birds ARE the luckiest in the world lol they have me now ;)
Jk of course, but I had the same problem actually with Lihra and Jake, they were a bit nippy too lol, and it's taken a month or so, but we're finally out of the nippy stage XD
When I started doing this, I didn't think it'd take that much patience, I literally thought that in a week, I'd have both of them eating out of my hands and amateurly trained........ Oh BOY was I wrong. To only now be moving out of the nipping stage itself, (with Jake that is, he's still an *******... But Lihra's warming up lol) has shown me how much patience it REALLY takes to raise birds... It's difficult. .-.
I'm a pretty big animal person tho... I have like... 3 cats, 2 dogs, 6 fish, and now these 2 birds... And all of those animals- Except the L & J and the fish of course- warmed up to me extremely fast... And mostly all of them were wild... I thought it'd be like raising a dog or a cat- HAHA NOPE! Really gave me a new respect for bird owners lol
And thank you for the luck! :D

[LesliesBabies]

I hope you and your birds recovered. Even though several months late, I hope that you don't get discouraged. There aren't many brave (stupid?) enough to try, again. That's why there were so many birds needing help and love at the rescue center.
You need to dedicate an area to new and scared birds. Make sure they're away from windows and trained birds. ALWAYS SAY THEIR NAMES BEFORE ENTERING THE ROOM OR APPROACHING THE CAGE! Despite aggressive behavior, cages must be cleaned weekly. Food and water must be changed a minimum of twice daily. To avoid biting situations, use target sticks.
Instead of sitting close to abused birds,
Week1: I've learned that the first week is best spent reading aloud from across a bedroom or chosen area where THEY can SEE but don't feel threatened by you. Say their names after each paragraph.
Week2: You can be sitting beside the cage reading aloud.
Week3: Let them see you eat and drink.
Week4: Leave the cage door open. Make sure and put a place for the birds to land! You can use a tree branch even. If they come out, great; if they don't , great. You may need to carry this over for another week.
Week5: They can have supervised visits with any trained birds lasting 15- 30 minutes, but only examined new birds!
Remember, birds with long tails tend to trust, again, faster than short-/flat- tailed birds. Who knows why.
I've worked with abused and/or neglected birds for years and have found over and over this method works for me. New birds are exciting but abused birds demand patience.