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zac_norwood
03-14-2017, 05:46 PM
Just as a little introduction, I am currently in college for a degree in welding in Arkansas, my family owns a small moving company here and the plan was to be a pipeline welder on the road but as I have matured my goals and such have changed and would not enjoy living on the road. I have been researching on if an African grey would fit my life, and if one did I was going through the costs of owning the bird and could not help but notice a lack in American made bird cages that are not 1000+ dollars. The last 2 months basically I have been researching costs, requirements, and specific details on manufacturing bird cages/aviaries and have reached a point where it is time to design the first cage,(thank the lord I took a CAD class last year). What I am looking for is experienced bird owners to help me in finding a way to make my cages unique to the market and also very practical, I figured this was the best way to go about this as I have little to no experience in owning a bird so if there was anything you ever wished out of a cage, or any ideas you have had through the years to make a cage more efficient, clean, or even better for the bird would be much appreciated in my new journey. I am wanting to stick with a steel cage with a powder coating as I do not see the benefit of stainless steel for a cage, please correct me if I am missing something about the benefits of stainless.

Dragonlady2
03-14-2017, 07:14 PM
Well, with regard to powder coating, I have a Senegal that chewed the paint off his cage and consequently I ended up getting him an aluminum cage. It is lightweight and easy to clean and move around. If you are considering making/ordering one to your specifications, I would consider width as well as height. While in their cage, there are more opportunities if the cage is wide as well as tall to have play/foraging areas that won't be pooped on.
I will post other ideas when I have a bit more time.
Good for you, taking the time to research before you get your parrot.

zac_norwood
03-14-2017, 08:02 PM
I am actually talking about using my welding degree to start a cage manufacturing company, sorry if I did not specify!

Dragonlady2
03-14-2017, 08:17 PM
Why would you powdercoat stainless steel? Bird owners pay a premium for stainless steel to avoid the paint issue. Just my opinion, check the companies that sell cages and see what the top sellers are and what the feedback is. You could look at incorporating the feedback into the design. Good luck with your designs....I would be interested in what you come up with. Part of the expense for us up in Canada is shipping. If we don't live close to a supplier, the weight and size of the cages can get the price up very quickly.

PlaxMacaws
03-14-2017, 09:12 PM
Why would you powdercoat stainless steel?Hmm, I took Zac's meaning as that he prefers to construct his cages from steel, but not stainless steel. Hence the powder coating requirement. But please correct me if I'm wrong. The benefit of stainless steel is that it affords reasonable assurance of no toxins. Coatings vary in that regard, and without lab testing for specific substances there's always the chance or poisoning one's bird.

Some things that come to mind about cage features, are:

The food/water fixtures should be positioned at a height that's neither too low nor too high with regard to nearby perches and maintenance access entry points. With macaws it's very important not to place feeding bays too low in a cage because of the long macaw tails. I've often imagined a center-post, i.e., a vertical column positioned near the cage's center area for mounting food and water containers. One thing that this might do is reduce scatter outside of the cage, since the scattered items would need to travel farther to exit the cage. However, the concept may only be practical with larger bird cages due to room constraints. And then, of course, overcoming the inconvenience of opening the cage to remove and clean the bowls would be another challenge. External bay doors make things much easier in that respect.

I've also imagined a cage floor grate made from (or coated with) some non-toxic material that would virtually repel the adherence of bird poop, and do so on a perpetual basis. If someone were able to develop such a thing it could prove extremely attractive market-wise.

Further, bar-spacing per bird size must always be a priority.

If I can, I'll come up with some other thoughts and post them later.

Lastly, welcome to our community! :)

Dragonlady2
03-14-2017, 09:24 PM
Oops, sorry....reread the post regarding steel versus stainless steel. If I was rich I would definitely go with stainless steel, although I do like the aluminum cage as well.

Quakerella
03-15-2017, 12:41 AM
I have to admit, I am a stainless steel fanatic. Cages, toys, water and food dishes, etc. I find the coating wears off or gets chewed off(as you said Helena), then you have to deal with what metal is underneath and that it will rust eventually.


I've also imagined a cage floor grate made from (or coated with) some non-toxic material that would virtually repel the adherence of bird poop, and do so on a perpetual basis. If someone were able to develop such a thing it could prove extremely attractive market-wise.

Tony have you tried putting a little, olive oil, coconut oil or red palm oil on a rag and rubbing over the grate. Obviously not enough to make it slippery or dangerous, but maybe this may make it easier to clean.

Casper's 2nd best friend
03-15-2017, 10:24 AM
Zac, as someone in the marine manufacturing industry I wouldn't dream of using anything less than 316 (A4 grade) stainless. Obviously in an onshore, away from salt corrosion lesser grades are suitable. Stainless is a material that can be used without any extra finishing so whilst its initial cost maybe higher you can save on downstream.
Larger parrots, as you know, live a long time and are not keen on having their cages messed with, let alone replaced every few years, so it is always preferable to buy the longest lasting, maintenance free cage that is affordable. I think you should be working on how to manufacture those cages cheaper and win business that way.
Rather than trying to reinvent the wheel, look at all the good points of other manufacturers and amalgamate all the goodness. Good design of catches on doors and other openings is very important, not only from ease of single handed use by humans (there is likely a parrot on the other arm) but also that a clever bird like an African Grey cannot open and a stupid bird like Casper cannot get his foot caught in. We have a flight cage with sliding bolts on the food tray doors which vibrate open in transit and have had to resort to keeping them closed with sticky tape - bad design!
Good:
a mix of vertical and horizontal bars gives a bird the opportunity to slide down and climb up again. A cage is not a prison, it is a gymnasium.
Bad:
cage bars so widely space that a bird can get its head stuck, remember that you are designing for a pet with the curiosity of a small child. Different sized birds need different bar spacing.


I hope this advice helps and good luck with your career. I look forward to being able to buy one of your cages when you start exporting to the UK.

Dragonlady2
03-15-2017, 12:43 PM
I have to admit, I am a stainless steel fanatic. Cages, toys, water and food dishes, etc. I find the coating wears off or gets chewed off(as you said Helena), then you have to deal with what metal is underneath and that it will rust eventually.



Tony have you tried putting a little, olive oil, coconut oil or red palm oil on a rag and rubbing over the grate. Obviously not enough to make it slippery or dangerous, but maybe this may make it easier to clean.

I have done this with olive oil in a spray can and then wiped with a paper towel. This works especially well with wet food that sticks to the bars.

zac_norwood
03-15-2017, 04:51 PM
Thank you everybody for the replies! still on the fence on material because with standard steel comes all the powder coating equipment, and with aluminum or stainless steel comes a much more difficult and costly weld job. What about with the middle feeder if you had a sort of removable stand attached dead center that came up about half way with feeder/waterer with the mounts for a perch on either side of the feeder/waterer, this would make the cage more appealing with 1-2 perches included and also eliminate the need for the angled seed guards around the which I find quite ugly. I really like the mention Casper's owner made about the fact that this is a gymnasium for the animal and that had me thinking about the specific bar spacing and there is no company that sells bird specific cages, so for example if I labeled one as the "ideal African grey cage" a person looking for a cage for an African grey would very easily be able to find my cage through a google search and would not need to spend nearly the time I have researching the recommended cage for their bird, I could have 4-5 cages for say the top 5 most popular birds that would not only provide specific cages for specific birds, but would also allow for similar birds a great environment to live in. Again thank you all for the ideas and support I am getting here, not to common to find an industry with experts readily available to discuss ideas on products.

PlaxMacaws
03-15-2017, 05:53 PM
Tony have you tried putting a little, olive oil, coconut oil or red palm oil on a rag and rubbing over the grate. Obviously not enough to make it slippery or dangerous, but maybe this may make it easier to clean.Yes Rosalyn, I have used both of those. They work to a point, as long as the coating of oil is regularly replenished. But as far as a concept feature for a new cage design, I was referring to some sort of virtually permanent grate surface that would continue to bead off wet substances with little to no maintenance.

PlaxMacaws
03-15-2017, 06:04 PM
What about with the middle feeder if you had a sort of removable stand attached dead center that came up about half way with feeder/waterer with the mounts for a perch on either side of the feeder/waterer, this would make the cage more appealing with 1-2 perches included and also eliminate the need for the angled seed guards around the which I find quite ugly.You're welcome, Zac. And I think your removable feeder/waterer center stand with accompanying perches is a spectacular idea! I've not seen anything like it yet. It's exactly what I pictured. The included perches, if positioned properly with respect to the food and water bowl fixtures, would ensure its efficacy. Additionally, it would give the cage a uniquely interesting appearance. Almost like an island within the cage that may double as an internal playstand. I'd love to see you do something like that.

Dragonlady2
03-15-2017, 07:02 PM
I love the idea of a middle feeder! As well, it would reduce the messy bars, and potentially, food all over the walls.

PlaxMacaws
03-15-2017, 10:13 PM
Zac: I'm unsure whether you've given much thought to how you might support the center-stand structure. If you anchor it to the lower frame, it would likely need to come through the center of the cage's sliding grate. Without using a split-grate solution -which is one possibility- my thought would be to leave an open slot on the back of the grate itself. This may involve merely cutting away each of the grate's cross bars that intersect its two center bars up through the middle area. And an opening in the back of the grate's frame would be required as well to complete the slot. Whereas if you supported the stand structure from above the grate, of course, it would necessarily require a horizontal support structure that would be vulnerable to falling poop and would thus require frequent cleaning. My other thought is to mount the center-stand structure from the roof of the cage. That would seem to resolve the grate interference, and poop-vulnerable support structure problems. So just some further thoughts on the topic for you.

Quakerella
03-16-2017, 03:56 AM
Funny Tony, I was thinking about this also and you have some great points. I guess a lot would depend on the size of the cage and the size of the bird so as not to interfere with the wing span. I was actually thinking of a large, long perch that reached to the centre and the food and water mounted at the end. This way it could be moved to accommodate for changes to the cage setup. Just my thoughts, but I like the idea of the feeding station in the middle.

PlaxMacaws
03-16-2017, 04:58 AM
Funny Tony, I was thinking about this also and you have some great points. I guess a lot would depend on the size of the cage and the size of the bird so as not to interfere with the wing span.Thanks. And you're indeed correct. Which is why I said:


However, the concept may only be practical with larger bird cages due to room constraints. ...meaning there may not be enough room for the station within the cages for smaller parrots.


I was actually thinking of a large, long perch that reached to the centre and the food and water mounted at the end. This way it could be moved to accommodate for changes to the cage setup. Just my thoughts, but I like the idea of the feeding station in the middle.Hey, that's a great idea too, Rosalyn :). And it's closer to something which most folks should be able to implement themselves. Good thinking.

Casper's 2nd best friend
03-16-2017, 01:05 PM
An A frame for the centre feeding station would also give the birds a nice slope to slide down. Casper loves doing that on his day perch - slides down, climbs back up and does it again and again.

4857

Not a pic of him sliding but you can see the idea.

Dragonlady2
03-16-2017, 02:16 PM
An A frame for the centre feeding station would also give the birds a nice slope to slide down. Casper loves doing that on his day perch - slides down, climbs back up and does it again and again.

4857

Not a pic of him sliding but you can see the idea.

I like this idea. I might try to come up with something myself. It could be removed at night for cleaning and a bird could stand on it and still flap it's wings without hitting any hanging toys.

PlaxMacaws
03-16-2017, 03:45 PM
An A frame for the centre feeding station would also give the birds a nice slope to slide down. Casper loves doing that on his day perch - slides down, climbs back up and does it again and again.Interesting idea, Jean-Pierre. A couple of things that I wonder about, though, are: 1) keeping poop off of the diagonal uprights, 2) how easy removal of the unit through the cage door might or might not be for cleaning, and 3) how much space may be sacrificed inside of the cage to make room for the unit's support structure. For larger macaw and cockatoo size cages it may especially be a wonderful option.

Cedardave
03-16-2017, 05:20 PM
In addition,I suggest strong industrial wheels.I typically buy HQ brand cages...plastic wheels are always breaking.....and believe it or not we have a wheen and castor store down the street that cant find replacements.
Also however you design the latches,be sure they are bird proof.One pair of my macaws has figured out how to open their foodbowl doors and walk out

Casper's 2nd best friend
03-17-2017, 09:36 AM
In addition,I suggest strong industrial wheels.I typically buy HQ brand cages...plastic wheels are always breaking.....and believe it or not we have a wheen and castor store down the street that cant find replacements.
Also however you design the latches,be sure they are bird proof.One pair of my macaws has figured out how to open their foodbowl doors and walk out

Hi Dave
we had this problem with the castors on Casper's cage. I found some suitable replacements, being intended for use on hospital beds and similar load bearing items, from a company called RS[Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks] Let me know if you need more details but hopefully putting castors into their search field should find them. If a bird gets it into his head that they are good chew items then that might be a problem but it hasn't occured to Casper YET :)

Lady
03-18-2017, 06:04 PM
Hi Zac,
:pp_welcome: Design a cage sounds pretty cool.
I recently was searching for a larger cage and my interest was for it to be as deep as it was wide. I want as much space as I can get without giving her a complete room in the house for herself. We have other pets and it would worry me too much if for any reason they would get into her room so she needs a safe space. Secondly I would of liked to have a cage with no particular space for the food/water dishes. I wanted to put them wherever I felt was a good spot depending on how I arrange her perches and toys. Now I have to arrange her perches and toys around her bowls. I could just not put the bowls in the places they allocated but then I would be wasting space because there are no bars to attach perches or toys.
As far as the seed guards, it would be nice if we could fold or flip them down when needed rather than having them sticking out at all times. It would be helpful for me when I wheel her cage into another place in the house.
Looking forward to seeing some results one day when you make your first cage :).