Meet Karma!

[Sucre]

I have been reading and keeping up with everyone, but not much time for posting over the past couple of weeks. I hope everyone is doing well!

I fell in love with a little turquoise IRN - I've been following him (I think) through his hand feeding, I know the lady through fb and I just couldn't take my eyes off of him. The conure hoodlums were keeping us pretty busy, and we lost one of our lovebirds to an accident - one of the rungs of the cage was loose and we didn't know it, he slipped through and my terrier got him. It was horrible, and to top it off, my husband was right in the next room when it happened and never heard a thing. That left one of my lovebirds without a mate, so I made the decision to sell them to another bird friend who has several in need of mates. The lady who had the IRN wanted my parrotlet and budgie, so we did some trading and drove 6 hours to pick him up last weekend!

This is Karma, a hand raised sweetheart who keeps us on our toes. He's 10 weeks old, about the same size as our sun conure.

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He has only been with us a week, so we are all still adjusting. He was raised with baby crimson bellied conures and a sibling, but I think the zooming of our conures throws him off a bit, he's flying but still a little awkward at landings, and they are all over the place. They haven't made friends yet, but I am hopeful that they will. I think our Sun is a little intimidated by him because he is a bit bigger than she is, so she is bluffing more than the IRN.

We're going to have him sexed, although we've been told by several people that it is a male due to the deep shade of the beak, and once we find out for sure, we are going to look for him a mate, hopefully a pretty little green girl.

[Mare]

Karma is super adorable but Holy Moly, Kim! Birds are a lifetime commitment..quit flipping them! They need us to love them, no matter what :(

Ugh..I know I can sound harsh and I'm sorry..I wear my heart on my sleeve and never know when to just shut up. I look forward to seeing more of Karma..again I apologize.

[Maddy]

You traded two of your birdies for a new one? :(

Karma is stunning, but the fact that you would trade two of your flock members for him really upsets me. :(

[plax]

Kim: Karma is a cutie. However, I doubt that you'll like the rest of what I'm going to tell you :(

I'm sad to say that I tend to agree with Mare and Maddy. Humans have created, and tend to perpetuate, the huge and increasing population of discarded companion birds on our planet. Birds are continually produced by breeders (be they commercial or private) and injected into the pet trade. This occurs despite that there are already so many older abandoned/homeless birds who desperately need to be adopted. Trading or selling several birds from one's flock (whether to change up or for profit), especially within a short time frame, just adds to this serious problem. And your mention of acquiring mates and pairing infers to me that you yourself intend to get into the breeding aspect of pet birds - if you've not done so already.

It's a fact that there are not nearly enough avian rescue facilities to serve the astronomical number of homeless and abused birds out there - all because of humans and their actions. And of the avian rescue facilities in existence, many are substandard and thus unhelpful to the parrot explosion problem. Producing more birds just compounds things.

Furthermore, and very importantly, if your birds are free within your home for any duration each day, it's extremely dangerous to have one or more predatory pets roaming free in their area. You can certainly call what happened an accident. But based upon your description, that accident could not have happened if your terrier did not have access to the room where your birds reside. In other words, it sounds very much to me like the incident was preventable. But so sadly, an innocent little Lovebird's life has been brutally taken as a result of the mentioned access. The level of agony and terror the little one must have experienced during the attack is simply unimaginable! These little guys are sentient beings whom we should regard and protect much the same as we do human loved ones. When someone chooses to be a pet guardian, I believe that it is incumbent upon them to take every measure to ensure that a brutal pet attack cannot occur.

What I've stated herein are my heartfelt feelings. I'm unsure of your core values on these matters, Kim. But please know that our forum community neither supports flipping birds nor a predator pet's access to them.

[Cedardave]

Congrats on your beautiful new baby...truely stunning.I am going to stay out of the flipping conversation..since we are breeders and to a degree are part of the problem.Never flippers.Other than to say those who buy our babies sign a no resale and must return to us...no rescue contract.But,since I don't know any of the previous storey..you have a beautiful new family member.Try and remember family means forever.Good luck and enjoy

[The Pinkertons]

Congrats on your beautiful new baby...truely stunning.I am going to stay out of the flipping conversation..since we are breeders and to a degree are part of the problem.Never flippers.Other than to say those who buy our babies sign a no resale and must return to us...no rescue contract.But,since I don't know any of the previous storey..you have a beautiful new family member.Try and remember family means forever.Good luck and enjoyAnother example would be big bird small bird scenario... look what happened to the cockatiel's beak as far as predatory issues. "As mentioned" Cedardave brought to our attention the potential danger keeping big birds with small birds. Also please be aware that no one here is bashing you. I'm confidant that you have your birds best interest at heart.

[Sucre]

Please remove me from the forum.

I am not a "flipper". A flipper buys / obtains something with the intention of making a profit off of it. I am trying to find my place and a good fit in the parrot world. I didn't buy any of them with the intention of rehoming them, and did not make a profit from any of them. In fact, I lost money to ensure that they would go to perfect homes.

The incident with the love bird was horrible, I cried all day over it. We just didn't know the rung was loose, all of the cages have locks on them and I do have other pets - forever pets because I do rescue. I never once considered rehoming them when we decided to have birds, nor did I consider putting the birds in a room by themselves - I don't believe that is how family pets should be treated. Thank goodness I don't judge how others choose to do it. It was tragic, and it was devastating, and if you think I don't know it was my fault, you're very wrong. I don't need anyone to point that out to me.

The birds were rehomed to wonderful homes. I do not care if they are used for breeding, but I do care if they are taken care of properly. I felt that I had too many birds to work with them all as I should (again, a mistake I freely admit to), and that was a major factor in my decision to turn 5 into 1, for a total of 4, knowing that with our schedules, we would have time for all of them if I only downsized.

We've made a lot of mistakes trying to find just what works for us and our schedules, and what we can handle temperament wise. Apparently, I made a mistake in joining this forum and believing that although other forums have tons more traffic and information, this was a great bunch of people who had a lot to offer. I am no longer surprised by the lack of posts.

Thank you for the help you did provide, but again, please remove my membership. This is not the sort of group I want to be a part of. I am not judgemental of others decisions, and not very tolerant of those who are.

[Mare]

Please remove me from the forum.

I am not a "flipper". A flipper buys / obtains something with the intention of making a profit off of it. I am trying to find my place and a good fit in the parrot world. I didn't buy any of them with the intention of rehoming them, and did not make a profit from any of them. In fact, I lost money to ensure that they would go to perfect homes.

The incident with the love bird was horrible, I cried all day over it. We just didn't know the rung was loose, all of the cages have locks on them and I do have other pets - forever pets because I do rescue. I never once considered rehoming them when we decided to have birds, nor did I consider putting the birds in a room by themselves - I don't believe that is how family pets should be treated. Thank goodness I don't judge how others choose to do it. It was tragic, and it was devastating, and if you think I don't know it was my fault, you're very wrong. I don't need anyone to point that out to me.

The birds were rehomed to wonderful homes. I do not care if they are used for breeding, but I do care if they are taken care of properly. I felt that I had too many birds to work with them all as I should (again, a mistake I freely admit to), and that was a major factor in my decision to turn 5 into 1, for a total of 4, knowing that with our schedules, we would have time for all of them if I only downsized.

We've made a lot of mistakes trying to find just what works for us and our schedules, and what we can handle temperament wise. Apparently, I made a mistake in joining this forum and believing that although other forums have tons more traffic and information, this was a great bunch of people who had a lot to offer. I am no longer surprised by the lack of posts.

Thank you for the help you did provide, but again, please remove my membership. This is not the sort of group I want to be a part of. I am not judgemental of others decisions, and not very tolerant of those who are.Kim, please don't get all bitchy and temperamental on us. I truly apologize for suggesting you are flipping your birds. Flipping to me meant moving one off to try out another..not to sell for profit.

I can totally understand why you had to move Sucre down the road. Umbrellas are difficult when not in the right fit...even in the RIGHT fit, they are difficult.

Believe me, I've made more mistakes than most in bringing up birdy but I just keep holding on. I'm not saying you should be this way, it is the way I am and it surprises me when others aren't. I'm sorry to see you leave..

[plax]

Please remove me from the forum.

I am not a "flipper". A flipper buys / obtains something with the intention of making a profit off of it. I am trying to find my place and a good fit in the parrot world. I didn't buy any of them with the intention of rehoming them, and did not make a profit from any of them. In fact, I lost money to ensure that they would go to perfect homes.

The incident with the love bird was horrible, I cried all day over it. We just didn't know the rung was loose, all of the cages have locks on them and I do have other pets - forever pets because I do rescue. I never once considered rehoming them when we decided to have birds, nor did I consider putting the birds in a room by themselves - I don't believe that is how family pets should be treated. Thank goodness I don't judge how others choose to do it. It was tragic, and it was devastating, and if you think I don't know it was my fault, you're very wrong. I don't need anyone to point that out to me.

The birds were rehomed to wonderful homes. I do not care if they are used for breeding, but I do care if they are taken care of properly. I felt that I had too many birds to work with them all as I should (again, a mistake I freely admit to), and that was a major factor in my decision to turn 5 into 1, for a total of 4, knowing that with our schedules, we would have time for all of them if I only downsized.

We've made a lot of mistakes trying to find just what works for us and our schedules, and what we can handle temperament wise. Apparently, I made a mistake in joining this forum and believing that although other forums have tons more traffic and information, this was a great bunch of people who had a lot to offer. I am no longer surprised by the lack of posts.

Thank you for the help you did provide, but again, please remove my membership. This is not the sort of group I want to be a part of. I am not judgemental of others decisions, and not very tolerant of those who are.Kim: Our policy is not to remove member accounts here. If a member chooses not to participate any longer, they may simply refrain from logging on.

Unfortunately, in the case of predatory pets, access equals risk. Therefore, such risk is preventable. A locked cage in the midst of a free-roaming predatory pet does in fact constitute a level of access. Your lovebird would most likely still be alive if all unsupervised access between the two species had been precluded. I make statements like this purely to serve as a warning to others, not to further disturb those who have lost their cherished pets to attack scenarios. I'm sure you feel horrible enough. And I'm truly sorry for that. But the warning message is very important so reminders are warranted.

Quick turning birds for profit is reprehensible. I understand that your motivation was not profit but instead a trial of various species for the best fit. The reality, though, is that when it comes to pet birds, 'trial and rehome' is a horribly poor practice for finding that best fit. Just like flipping for profit, the 'trial and rehome' process results in birds getting jerked around from place to place, since many folks who are prone toward swapping pets aren't likely to remain satisfied for long. And that's why I said: "Trading or selling several birds from one's flock (whether to change up or for profit), especially within a short time frame, just adds to this serious problem." In other words, both motivations contribute impetus to the hugely perpetual problem of bird swapping among humans. Profit or not, the birds end up being sent down the road. And that's truly unfortunate.

And your assessment concerning causation of the level of traffic on our site is entirely inaccurate, Kim. Actually, the few companion bird boards who experience considerably more traffic and posts than we do are in fact able to do so because they have been in existence many years longer than we have. As such, they accumulated their large member bases when there were very few choices available for online pet bird discussion. It's effectively the same reason large cities remain large, and small towns remain small.

I'm truly sorry you were offended.

[Cedardave]

I hope if you were offended...take a deep breath and realize this place is likely the most appreciative and friendly place to discuss our personal interest in our feathered companions.While everyone has their own opinion,this is a good place to share happiness,sorrow and share newly learned experiance with people who share a similar interest.Im only a member...not an administrator, moderator....no one special.But this place is.Whether you agree with someones opinion or not doesnt change your own personal space.If feelings are hurt I hope other members remain considerate in what they post.In the end ,if you want truth and honesty this is the right place.I hope you reconsider your departure...but wish you and your feathered family all the best.

[Dragonlady2]

Seems like I tend to respond more to the controversial topic area...here goes....Unfortunately for Kim, she came across as nonchalant and insensitive when describing what had happened with her lovebird. Perhaps, the response to her actions might have been tempered if she would have expressed some emotion or feeling of responsibility in her first post.
I wanted to comment on the size of the forum. Although, I would agree that age of the forum will probably have an impact on size, I believe the consistent, firm and open stance on non support of intermingling of birds with other animals and "flipping", will keep this forum "small" or a better word is manageable.
Other forums will advise against the above, but those who do advise are outnumbered by people who will support and encourage such practices. In my mind, there is a great divide between people who "own" birds and those that are caregivers. Please remember, these are just my thoughts....owners appear to have less of a spiritual ( for lack of a better word) connection. If you "own" it you have the "right" to do what "you" want with it. If you are the caregiver, provider for the bird, I think there is a different connection and mindset. Rehoming does not come easily and not without lasting regret. Life decisions are made around the bird's needs, whenever possible.
I support the mission statement of this forum, but too many people will come here and be unable to live with that high a standard because they need too much emotional support and approval from others. Just my thoughts and we don't all have to agree, that's the beauty of being here.

This probably coming across as being moralistic....comes with old age. I used to be in management working with troubled teen boys. I was pretty clear in my expectations with them although I used a whole lot of humour. Hence the name Dragonlady...was called that lovingly ( I like to believe, lol,)by staff and boys.

[The Pinkertons]

I agree with you wholeheartedly Helena...

[plax]

I appreciate your thoughts, Dave and Helena.

While it's difficult to please everyone, the mission of this place is not necessarily to please folks. Instead, it is to serve the best interest of companion birds. I've found that it's impossible to avoid offending a member now and then when stressing the various bird safety philosophy elements we have adopted here. Like it or not, the bottom line on this message board is that bird safety and well-being must be first considerations. The possibility of offending a member and efforts to avoid doing so must be secondary to what's best for captive parrots.

Helena: I think your assessment is well-stated and I mostly agree with it. I think you're correct that our bird protection views and practices impose a membership-limiting effect. However, I tend to disagree on your point that not having such a policy would have significantly increased our member base and our overall member participation. I say this because when I compare our board to similar boards (i.e., bird boards with comparable member counts and histories, but without our strictness on bird safety issues), I find that they tend not to show more thread activity than we experience here. And some of those boards have existed for a bit longer than us, yet they remain as far from a membership critical mass point and as limited in activity as we do.

I am convinced that the longest standing forum sites at which enthusiasts of a particular topic first began congregating are the ones that have attained and will thus sustain a critical mass of participants. The effect is that those communities will always be the largest, the most dynamic, and the most attractive to potential new members. Boards like ours are simply unable to compete with such established factors. If a given new interest began to emerge and thus attained popularity among the masses, and if someone then started one of the first discussion boards serving that particular interest, said new board would stand to become the largest on the topic. I think this is a fairly well established law of social dynamics and the Internet

Thanks for your comments, everyone!

[Shyra]

As a new member here, please allow me to give a different perspective as to why your members continue to leave or at the very least refrain from posting and this group doesn't grow in size. I've only been here a half of dozen times and have seen 4 people leave all for the same reasons. First Kim was criticized for rehoming her birds and getting a new one. Instead of making her feel bad for doing that, why didn't someone nicely explain to her that she needs to be educating herself more about the different types of parrots and their general personalities so that she can make a better choice rather than going through several till she finds a good fit? Then it was mentioned that she should have showed more emotion and people would have posted differently. Seriously??? Maybe not showing emotion is the only way she is able to handle this right now. Or maybe she isn't good at writing about how she feels. Regardless does that give anyone the right to judge her or be critical because they didn't perceive her to be feeling bad enough over her loss? Oh wait, because this is about the safety of birds -- not about educating people on how to keep their birds safe--it's all right to make someone feel like crap so that they want to leave and then pat yourselves on the back because well it's not your fault they couldn't deal with the mission of this group. Nope in no way does the size of this group have anything to do with making people feel like crap.

[Mare]

Shyra, I think you are being unfair. I'm guilty of jumping down Kim's throat, I'm not perfect, it was a gut reaction from me and yes..I can sometimes not keep it in. We ALL care about our birds and like a big family, we all react differently. I don't think anyone was trying to be mean, not on purpose, anyways.

[Dragonlady2]

Shyra, I would agree you, that sometimes if the message is kinder, people will tend to stay and listen. If you felt I was critical of Kim's reaction, I am sorry. That was not my intent. I was trying, in my sometimes inept way, to point out that communication can sometimes be the cause for misunderstanding and judgment. I just didn't elaborate enough to finish the thought. I tend to think in point form.
Internet communication lacks so many of the other components of communication, that at times, the message gets lost. I think if Kim would have posted the events in separate forums ie) bereavement and IRN , perhaps the fallout of mixing it altogether would have been different. Just some thoughts.

[Mare]

I like your thinking, Helena. If we were all sitting in a room (not a forum room), discussing this..things would have come out differently.

[plax]

As a new member here, please allow me to give a different perspective as to why your members continue to leave or at the very least refrain from posting and this group doesn't grow in size. I've only been here a half of dozen times and have seen 4 people leave all for the same reasons. First Kim was criticized for rehoming her birds and getting a new one. Instead of making her feel bad for doing that, why didn't someone nicely explain to her that she needs to be educating herself more about the different types of parrots and their general personalities so that she can make a better choice rather than going through several till she finds a good fit? Then it was mentioned that she should have showed more emotion and people would have posted differently. Seriously??? Maybe not showing emotion is the only way she is able to handle this right now. Or maybe she isn't good at writing about how she feels. Regardless does that give anyone the right to judge her or be critical because they didn't perceive her to be feeling bad enough over her loss? Oh wait, because this is about the safety of birds -- not about educating people on how to keep their birds safe--it's all right to make someone feel like crap so that they want to leave and then pat yourselves on the back because well it's not your fault they couldn't deal with the mission of this group. Nope in no way does the size of this group have anything to do with making people feel like crap.A little bird is brutally and unnecessarily slaughtered by a vicious predator and you feel that a friendly and soft effort should have been made to explain to that little bird's custodian the very thing that has been repeated on this board over and over, infinitum, and which exists throughout our published policy documents (which each of our members should be well familiar with)? If that sort of a response stood much chance to produce a positive result, it would indeed be a wonderful thing. But unfortunately, in this world, it doesn't.

I have been active among and/or observed many pet discussion communities through the years. Thereby, I have witnessed a great many approaches for attempting to get through to folks who recklessly facilitate dangerous situations for their pets. There have been the courteous and kind suggestion approaches. There have been the subtle remark approaches. There have been the detailed personal view approaches. And there have been the grim reality approaches. Guess which ones nearly always render avoidant responses from the individuals they're directed towards and are typically ignored by future readers of the threads? You got it... the first 3. While the last approach option typically will not win over the person to which it is aimed, it will leave a permanent record of the harsh truth to shock the conscience of thread readers thereafter. Some of those readers will heed the impactful warning, which may well save a few innocent pets from unnecessary maiming or death thereafter.

I'll preface what I'm about to say next by telling you that I take no enjoyment in injuring anyone's feelings. In fact, it's painful for me to do so. However, when someone is more concerned about assaulting human feelings than they are about the need for harsh warnings to protect as many innocent pets as possible from preventable accidents, then their values are vastly different from my own. And I might add that I vehemently disagree with their priorities! Simply put, being flowery and friendly with metered explanations doesn't work! I've seen it not work too many times. Folks either ignore those efforts altogether, or say thank you and change the subject, or say something similar to: "I know what's safe for my own pet(s)... I'd appreciate it if you would mind your own business!" It's entirely futile. In an ideal world filled with logical thinkers, such an approach could be effective. But not in this one. The only option is to shock the conscience and hope it impacts some folks to make a positive change in their practices.

As far as traffic levels on discussion board sites, what I have stated in my previous reply is the proven mechanism which most affects both the size of a message board's member base and the percentage of said base that is active. I've observed the dynamics involved very closely for a number of years and the element I've described has proven out as the greatest determinant affecting popularity and traffic. I'm sure you would prefer to believe otherwise since you're clearly angry and offended. But all of the evidence from my long-term observation indicates that the gist of your theory has significantly less overall effect upon member count and participation levels among new message boards than what 'getting in on the ground floor' with an emerging interest group will do for them. When there are already message boards serving an interest group and they have existed for a long while, there is nothing a newcomer board can do to level the situation.

[Shyra]

Mare, what you gave was a gut reaction, so was my reply but you consider mine to be unfair. Perception is everything and that is exactly my point. And No, Tony, I don't think it's good that a bird got killed by a dog. But it's obvious that Kim didn't let the dog get the bird on purpose just like a lot of other accidents have happened to birds for preventable reasons. As Mare pointed out no one is perfect. As Helena also pointed out that internet communication is hard to translate the emotion needed to get the right point across. What I was trying to convey had more to do with why I think the the membership is so low here verses other forums. Look at this from my point of view as someone who doesn't know anyone here well. The first thread I followed someone was showing off a toy she bought and that ended in hurt feelings and three people leaving the group because of criticism. Then Kim's excited about a bird she got, yes there was a lot wrong with the circumstances, but as an outsider all I see is more criticism resulting in another member leaving. Both times it's wrote off as bird safety as the only thing that matters. Yes it's important but if the people who need to learn about bird safety the most don't stick around birds aren't being helped which defeats the biggest point of these groups. There is a reason the membership is declining rather than growing. Is it unfair of me to make these assumptions, perhaps. I'm very thick skinned but it doesn't make me want to start a new thread or post anything that's going on with my flock. Tony, as far as shocking people with harsh truths go, I think people are going to listen or they are not but the people who want to learn how to do what's best for their birds will stick around to learn if they aren't worried they'll be attacked for doing something through ignorance.

I think it's pretty obvious from my few posts here that this forum is not a good fit for me so this will be my last post. I do wish y'all the best.

[Mare]

Shyra, I'm sorry you feel this way..go kick some butt on Avian Avenue!! :). They REALLY need your help! I'm being completely serious.

[wingman]

Karma is a beauty!!!

[Mare]

Karma is a beauty!!!

Charlie..I couldn't have said it better! Thank you :)

[plax]

But it's obvious that Kim didn't let the dog get the bird on purpose just like a lot of other accidents have happened to birds for preventable reasons.Negligence is no excuse.


What I was trying to convey had more to do with why I think the the membership is so low here verses other forums.I know that's what you think. But I'm telling you that it's a small element compared to the much larger one - which I have taken time to explain to you, Shyra.


Look at this from my point of view as someone who doesn't know anyone here well. The first thread I followed someone was showing off a toy she bought and that ended in hurt feelings and three people leaving the group because of criticism.Who were the three? Dianne left, yes. But Jen left well before that, and for a different reason altogether... she thought she had to put a backlink for PP on her website in order to post here. And that's why she said she had decided not to be part of our community. She only returned because you told her about Michelle's thread. So she had already made the decision to leave us weeks before Michelle created that thread. By my count, that leaves just one person who left: Dianne. Savannah did not leave us... she's still here. LunaLovebird absolutely did not leave us because of my response in Michelle's thread. She has tentatively stopped posting here for other reasons (which she has shared with me privately). So who am I forgetting? My count suggests that only one person left us over the TNT toy matter. And again, that's Dianne.


Then Kim's excited about a bird she got, yes there was a lot wrong with the circumstances, but as an outsider all I see is more criticism resulting in another member leaving.When folks here fail to acknowledge the dangers posed by predator pets with physical access to small birds, then I'm going to drive the danger point to them as impactfully as I can. And that's because taking the chance that they and future readers of the given thread won't dismiss any 'kind suggestions' is not an option here. They're going to get the hard and disturbing truth!

Moreover, within this very thread you've seen how some folks who have genuinely acknowledged the dissimilar species intermingling and access problem will begin to back off from their stance if/when a bit of guilt is directed toward them. I, however, will not back off because I don't feel an inkling of guilt for standing firm on behalf of the innocent victims of brutal, preventable pet attacks! Feelings, friendships, and social rapport pale miserably to the horror and agony that a small pet experiences while being severed into pieces by a much larger predatory mammal. In my mind it's exactly the same as a human child being torn apart by a Siberian Tiger (due to negligence by the animal's owner). Hence, there will be no excuses or soft coddling from me on this issue.


Both times it's wrote off as bird safety as the only thing that matters.It's not written off! Bird safety is infinitely more important than human feelings and thus it's presented as the highest priority among our site's policy documents - which each of our members are expected to familiarize themselves with before using our services. When members fail to familiarize themselves with our policies and values, or when they simply ignore them, and then when their own descriptions within their thread posts prove that to be the case, that's when they need to be addressed in firm manner. And I personally think that's far better than banning them on the spot for failing to research our policies.


Yes it's important but if the people who need to learn about bird safety the most don't stick around birds aren't being helped which defeats the biggest point of these groups.People who aren't willing to accept warranted criticism won't listen anyway. Most folks of that sort merely seek approval and flatter. I've mentioned my repeated experiences involving folks not listening to many various approaches (including the one that you support). There's a far greater benefit down the road from highlighting the shocking reality about pet-related negligence, I assure you. I somehow suspect that you'll never be able to grasp this truth, though :(


There is a reason the membership is declining rather than growing. Is it unfair of me to make these assumptions, perhaps.Both unfair and inaccurate. Membership is not declining... we have actually gained more members than we have lost. So again, you are incorrect, Shyra. But your theories roll on it seems. I have years of careful observation (with number tracking) to bolster my explanations, by the way.


I'm very thick skinned but it doesn't make me want to start a new thread or post anything that's going on with my flock.That's entirely up to you. But something has been inspiring you to contnue submitting posts here - irrespective of what they're about.


Tony, as far as shocking people with harsh truths go, I think people are going to listen or they are not but the people who want to learn how to do what's best for their birds will stick around to learn if they aren't worried they'll be attacked for doing something through ignorance.No one was attacked. Innocent pets with no voice were merely defended. There's a BIG difefrence! And how many forum sites have you adminsitered? And for how long?


I think it's pretty obvious from my few posts here that this forum is not a good fit for me so this will be my last post. I do wish y'all the best.I suppose then that collectively it makes three members who have left us so far over this related issue. You, Dianne, and Kim. Jen doesn't count for the reason explained.

Please take care of yourself.

[The Pinkertons]

As a new member here, please allow me to give a different perspective as to why your members continue to leave or at the very least refrain from posting and this group doesn't grow in size. I've only been here a half of dozen times and have seen 4 people leave all for the same reasons. First Kim was criticized for rehoming her birds and getting a new one. Instead of making her feel bad for doing that, why didn't someone nicely explain to her that she needs to be educating herself more about the different types of parrots and their general personalities so that she can make a better choice rather than going through several till she finds a good fit? Then it was mentioned that she should have showed more emotion and people would have posted differently. Seriously??? Maybe not showing emotion is the only way she is able to handle this right now. Or maybe she isn't good at writing about how she feels. Regardless does that give anyone the right to judge her or be critical because they didn't perceive her to be feeling bad enough over her loss? Oh wait, because this is about the safety of birds -- not about educating people on how to keep their birds safe--it's all right to make someone feel like crap so that they want to leave and then pat yourselves on the back because well it's not your fault they couldn't deal with the mission of this group. Nope in no way does the size of this group have anything to do with making people feel like crap. Shyra, this is truly an upsetting situation for all concerned.

No one, intentionally is out to condemn anyone here. Unfortunately, things get misconstrued in the process of communicating on these discussion forums. It is most difficult to express ones ideals in this arena. Our feelings tend to interfere with an otherwise proactive vision for the wellbeing of companion birds.

[Mare]

Suzanne, I've been meaning to tell you.. I love your signature!

You are a "serial" Angry Bird! :)

[plax]

Suzanne, I've been meaning to tell you.. I love your signature!It's pretty cool, isn't it? Kind of a Franken-Pink image ;)

[The Pinkertons]

Thanks Tony...Franken-Pink it is! I'm going to name it Franken-Pink