New TNT Toys For Charlie

[mdg1109]

So I love TNT bird toys, we have ordered from there a couple of times and Charlie absolutely loves the toys they make and their shipping is fast to so no complaints here, pictured below is some of what our well loved bird will be receiving (well loved, spoiled it is all the same :th_smile: )

4100

4101

4102

[spiritbird]

Michelle please try to repost the photos using the Insert Image tool in the 13th box above.

[Lady]

They are colorful and busy looking. I'm sure Charlie will enjoy them. Lady would too.

[plax]

Nice looking toys. But two of them have a lot of hard plastic parts. My concern is that many birds will shatter or bite bits off of those and potentially ingest some of the shards. I don't consider them safe for that reason.

[spiritbird]

[Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks]

[Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks]

Tony I do not necessarily agree with you on this one. If any one is concerned about risk of plastic used in bird toys please read the link provided and the statement printed on TNT web page. [Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks] Plastics have been used for years without incident. I think the bottom line is you have to know your bird

[Shyra]

I have to agree with Diane about the toy parts. It all has to do with the way your bird plays with toys. There is no toy or toy part that is going to be 100% safe for each and every bird. Wood parts can splinter and cause problems, acrylic and hard plastic can create sharp shards, grapevine balls can unravel causing a bird to get tangled and whose end pieces can poke an eye out. If anyone has ever made toys using sisal you know even it can give you splinters and paper can cause paper cuts. Each toy part whether plastic or natural has pros and cons, the best you can do is when you give your bird a new type of part is give it under supervision until you know how he/she plays with it and keep in mind that even their mood swings can change the way they play with their toys.

[plax]

Tony I do not necessarily agree with you on this one. If any one is concerned about risk of plastic used in bird toys please read the link provided and the statement printed on TNT web page. [Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks] Plastics have been used for years without incident. I think the bottom line is you have to know your birdDianne: My point is clearly stated at the second URL you've provided ([Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks]) under the "Plastics" heading. I've cited the relevant paragraph below.


When considering toys with plastic components a bird owner must consider the nature of the plastic component (i.e., soft vs. brittle) relative to the size of the bird. Brittle plastics should not be given to larger birds because when they break very sharp, cutting edges are formed and if swallowed accidentally could result in ruptured organs. Hard plastic toys specifically designed for parakeets and cockatiels should not be given to larger birds with the beak power to destroy them.
I have large macaws. Large macaws will often shatter brittle plastic/acrylic objects. Those hard materials tend to fracture into sharp shards. Broken acrylic fragments, especially, can resemble broken glass. We know that our birds may swallow fibrous matter from frayed cloth and rope. Doing so is not natural, yet many birds do it. Salsa and Jack have both swallowed bits of hard plastic after fracturing it away from various objects themselves. If a bird ingests a plastic/acrylic fragment of a certain shape and sharpness, internal organ damage may result. I personally feel that this potential is worthy of a cautionary warning to parrot keepers.

I therefore maintain my position that hard plastics/acrylics are not safe for some birds. Obviously, if your bird is not inclined or powerful enough to break apart such objects, this risk tends to vanish.

[Shyra]

I have large macaws. Large macaws will often shatter brittle plastic/acrylic objects. Those hard materials tend to fracture into sharp shards. Broken acrylic fragments, especially, can resemble broken glass. We know that our birds may swallow fibrous matter from frayed cloth and rope. Doing so is not natural, yet many birds do it. Salsa and Jack have both swallowed bits of hard plastic after fracturing it away from various objects themselves. If a bird ingests a plastic/acrylic fragment of a certain shape and sharpness, internal organ damage may result. I personally feel that this potential is worthy of a cautionary warning to parrot keepers.

I therefore maintain my position that hard plastics/acrylics are not safe for some birds. Obviously, if your bird is not inclined or powerful enough to break apart such objects, this risk tends to vanish.

I can understand that. My GW chews through 4mm chain, bends o'rings, washers, etc. like they are nothing. He's obsessed with metal so I can't use any in his cage and I'm very careful about what goes on his playstand for use under supervision. Mostly the only metal I use for his toys are 6mm quicklinks and the 1/4" thick skewers. He can also break those large one inch acrylic beads with no trouble. Never had to worry about him trying to ingest them though. It really does come down to knowing your bird and how they play.

I also have to say TNT makes some great bird toys.

[plax]

I have to agree with Diane about the toy parts. It all has to do with the way your bird plays with toys. There is no toy or toy part that is going to be 100% safe for each and every bird. Wood parts can splinter and cause problems, acrylic and hard plastic can create sharp shards, grapevine balls can unravel causing a bird to get tangled and whose end pieces can poke an eye out. If anyone has ever made toys using sisal you know even it can give you splinters and paper can cause paper cuts. Each toy part whether plastic or natural has pros and cons, the best you can do is when you give your bird a new type of part is give it under supervision until you know how he/she plays with it and keep in mind that even their mood swings can change the way they play with their toys.I hear what you're saying. But we should be careful to avoid blanket conclusions that every material presents an equal risk. I would much prefer a mouthful of sawdust of shredded wood than a mouthful of shattered glass (this goes for acrylics or hardened plastics as well). What sharp shards can do to the inside of one's mouth, they can certainly do to elements of the digestive tract. I agree with you, however, that knowing one's bird and its behavioral inclinations is essentially important in matters such as this.

[The Pinkertons]

I hear what you're saying. But we should be careful to avoid blanket conclusions that every material presents an equal risk. I would much prefer a mouthful of sawdust of shredded wood than a mouthful of shattered glass (this goes for acrylics or hardened plastics as well). What sharp shards can do to the inside of one's mouth, they can certainly do to elements of the digestive tract. I agree with you, however, that knowing one's bird and its behavioral inclinations is essentially important in matters such as this. I always found it kind of humorous how we tend to pick out toys for our animals based on our own preference. Many of the toys for our animals are so cute that I'm hesitant to even give it to them. Knowing full well they will be destroyed ($$$) in no time. Where in Nature do Birds have access to the Various Toys That we feel they so Desperately need. Do they really know the difference between a Toy vs. Tree branch with leaves that they Shred, Chew and Strip with the added bonus of getting nutritional benefits such as pectin and naturally occurring enzymes. What about pine cones, Bamboo! my Birds love to strip the bamboo I have growing and chew on the young fresh shoots, no matter where you live, you can find something in nature that will not only be safe but satisfy their chewing . Research here PP the lists of toxic and safe plants and flowers.

[Penny]

I don't particularly like using plastic when I make bird toys, but I think that's because I tend to think about Kiki when designing my toys, and she just didn't like plastic toys.

[jmfleish]

Tony, didn't you make a blanket statement when you suggested that my toys were not safe? I have been in business for more than ten years now and have not had a problem. While most of my toys are designed for medium sized birds such as greys, Amazons, Eclectus, and smaller Cockatoos, I do have a varied clientele. We have chosen to mix plastics with wood and naturals in many of our designs because we find that most birds like the variety but we also like to carry toys that are all natural or all stainless steel and we are more than happy to custom make toys and remove or add parts that particular customers may or may not want.

I absolutely agree with Shyra in the fact that a parrot can potentially turn any toy into something dangerous and life threatening. I have a very good friend who lost her Black Palm due to the ingestion of wood that pierced his crop, so even wood can cause issues and can indeed kill. I have another friend with a GWM who can't be given anything but SS toys because anything she can chew up and swallow, she will. Most birds do not eat non-food items. Those who do will generally eat anything and everything, not just plastics because they suffer from a disease called Pica. The bottom line is you have to know your bird and what is safe for one bird may not be safe for another bird.

As far as giving birds natural items, it would be great if we were all in the position to do so but a lot of us don't have access to safe and fresh foliage. Our parrots live in our living rooms and eat pellets and bond with us. Nothing about their lives in captivity is like living in a jungle. We have to do the best we can and by providing toys that entertain them and keep them busy I think that's definitely a step in the right direction. TNT Bird Toys works very hard to create toys that will last a little longer but ultimately they are meant to be destroyed.

[LunaLovebird]

I always found it kind of humorous how we tend to pick out toys for our animals based on our own preference. Many of the toys for our animals are so cute that I'm hesitant to even give it to them. Knowing full well they will be destroyed ($$$) in no time. Where in Nature do Birds have access to the Various Toys That we feel they so Desperately need. Do they really know the difference between a Toy vs. Tree branch with leaves that they Shred, Chew and Strip with the added bonus of getting nutritional benefits such as pectin and naturally occurring enzymes. What about pine cones, Bamboo! my Birds love to strip the bamboo I have growing and chew on the young fresh shoots, no matter where you live, you can find something in nature that will not only be safe but satisfy their chewing . Research here PP the lists of toxic and safe plants and flowers.

Where in nature do birds get kept in small cells? In nature, they have entire forests at their disposal. Not so for captive birds. While I agree that branches and seed pods, etc, are probably some of the best toys for a parrot, not everyone will have access to these, and some birds just don't take to them. Toys offer a good alternative that can keep the birds interested and not get bored. I think it's a little harsh to judge people for using their money to buy their birds toys instead of finding branches and the like. They both do the job. I also don't agree that people spend all that money on toys without considering what their parrots actually like.

[LunaLovebird]

To add, I am fortunate to live where I do. There are lots of bird safe trees here and my birds both get a good supply of native branches and seed pods. Your birds are Australian birds. In their natural habitat they have access to these same things that I can provide for my birds, but you probably can't for yours. Yet, I'm not about to criticise you for not providing them everything they would have access to in their native land, because that is frankly ridiculous. Your birds are clearly happy and well loved.

[plax]

Tony, didn't you make a blanket statement when you suggested that my toys were not safe?No, I don't believe I made a blanket statement. I merely expressed my opinion and conveyed a warning about all parrot toys containing hard plastic/acrylic parts (made by anyone). Your toys just happened to incite my warning because they are the subject of this thread and some of them contain hard plastic or acrylic parts. My objective has been to express that, in my view, such parts will add an extra and significant element of danger for certain birds if/when they mutilate those parts during play activities. Stated another way, I am inferring that hard pastic/acrylic materials present a greater risk of serious injury to powerful birds who are prone to crush brittle objects than are some of the other commonly used bird toy materials. I used the example comparison of a mouthful of shredded wood and a mouthful of shattered glass. My conclusion being that the latter would be likely to damage the oral cavity more extensively than the former. It's a thought experiment intended to illustrate my point about the different levels of risk associated with different materials.


I have been in business for more than ten years now and have not had a problem.That's nice to hear. However, your record in this regard does not negate the aforementioned risk posed by brittle, fragmentable toy components.


I absolutely agree with Shyra in the fact that a parrot can potentially turn any toy into something dangerous and life threatening.But reality holds that certain materials are more easily transformed into dangerous objects than others.


I have a very good friend who lost her Black Palm due to the ingestion of wood that pierced his crop, so even wood can cause issues and can indeed kill. I have another friend with a GWM who can't be given anything but SS toys because anything she can chew up and swallow, she will. Most birds do not eat non-food items. Those who do will generally eat anything and everything, not just plastics because they suffer from a disease called Pica. The bottom line is you have to know your bird and what is safe for one bird may not be safe for another bird.Yes, parrot tragedies can occur involving many materials. But again, the risks posed by each material are not equal. Some materials are simply more dangerous than others. I've explained why I feel that hard plastic/acrylic bird toy components present a greater risk than many of the other available toy components. And I will stand by this view. Dianne posted some links in an effort to bolster the opposite opinion. Ironically, one of the URLs she shared described my very concern involving the inherent dangers of hard plastic/acrylic toy components and warned readers accordingly. I am clearly not alone with my perspective.

And by the way, Jennifer... it would have been nice if you could have at least replied once in your introduction thread, Hello from Madison, WI ([Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks]), for the purpose of acknowledging our wonderful members who took time and made effort to greet you. You posted your thread starter on May 2, introducing yourself, but have not returned to the thread since. Yet someone apparently told you that I made a negative comment about toy materials that you use, and here you are.

[The Pinkertons]

To add, I am fortunate to live where I do. There are lots of bird safe trees here and my birds both get a good supply of native branches and seed pods. Your birds are Australian birds. In their natural habitat they have access to these same things that I can provide for my birds, but you probably can't for yours. Yet, I'm not about to criticise you for not providing them everything they would have access to in their native land, because that is frankly ridiculous. Your birds are clearly happy and well loved. Well lets see now... for the record my birds genetic ancestry is Australian . However Bentley was hatched in Washington State And Bella is a California Girl. :th_wink: We have a great variety of Flora here ,Eucalyptus,
Wattles, Pines, Palms. And besides It necessarily doesn't have to be Native Flora... It's an added bonus of enjoying something natural, Even dandelion weeds. for variety and enrichment...

They love eating Hibiscus .Bamboo, Gardenias. etc. I collect very large Branches /Trunks of Eucalyptus. Since when am I not entitled to make a statement, I have Bird toys and I spend plenty. Same with Dog toys they are so cute. I know my dogs will destroy them and theyre not cheap.

Yes I do find it funny, because I don't think the bird knows the difference between a block of pine that I get from the lumber yard or one from a toy.
Same with dog toys I don't think my dog knows the difference between the raccoon squeaky toy from the squirrel squeaky toy.
I spend a lot on my birds Toys and quality food, $2,000.00 outdoor Aviary. And I also have the luxury to work from home my birds are out with me all the time. So for you to attack me on having a discussion is overreacting.
You need to practice the art of Discernment . Where did I criticize someone for buying toys ?

Honey, Before you start making assumptions, And Taking things out of context you need to realize on a discussion board/ forum people discuss topics that may become debated. So please lets all agree to disagree. All is well !

[LunaLovebird]

Since when was a debate people just sitting around agreeing with each other? I wasn't making any assumptions. I was responding to your post, which implied (in my mind) a criticism of people who choose to buy toys for their birds over giving them naturally available things. That's a criticism I find ridiculous.

It's also worth noting that there is a difference between criticising a person and criticising their ideas. In future, before you decide to take offence to my words and take them personally, read my posts with that in mind.

[The Pinkertons]

Since when was a debate people just sitting around agreeing with each other? I wasn't making any assumptions. I was responding to your post, which implied (in my mind) a criticism of people who choose to buy toys for their birds over giving them naturally available things. That's a criticism I find ridiculous.

It's also worth noting that there is a difference between criticising a person and criticising their ideas. In future, before you decide to take offence to my words and take them personally, read my posts with that in mind.Luna I choose not to continue this discussion with you I don't like were we are going with this. 'Because I could say the same about you'. I'm leaving this here. I have more important things to talk about than bird toys . Its a non issue to me, Unfortunately that is not what I implied . if it came across that way my apologies. Lets put this to rest. What say you :th_smile:

[jmfleish]

Tony, I wasn't even going to bother posting to this thread even though it was brought to my attention but I felt that I had to. Bottom line is, yes, it was specifically about my business, so ultimately, I felt I should say something. Once again, I do feel you made a blanket statement about plastic pieces. Neither one of the toys listed would be good toys to give to a large Macaw, especially not the Leather Butterfly with the small pony beads on it but I know plenty of people who know their birds and have no problems giving their large birds those beads because they love to play with them. Even my medium sized birds like to roll them around in their mouths but they don't swallow them nor do they break them. The only acrylic piece on the Alex toy is the pacifier and rarely will a bird even bother with it. Once again, we can make the toy without that piece if the client does not want it. The other pieces are perfectly fine for all birds and do not shatter when broken. It's perfectly fine if you feel that you don't want to give plastic parts to your birds but you are indeed making a blanket statement about all plastic parts by stating that they are all dangerous...this just isn't true. Linda Middleton also wrote an article that was posted that talks about how plastics can bring a lot of fun to toys when used properly with your birds.

As to why I never came back and posted again to my initial introductory post, that would be because I was told that if I wanted to post here I would have to advertise your forum on my web site and I didn't feel comfortable with that considering I had no real intention of doing any true advertising here. I also don't like the fact that every post I put on here is moderated. This isn't the kind of community that I care to belong to.

[spiritbird]

I truly do not understand how Michelle posting photos of her wonderful new toys from TNT has exploded into what it is now. It upsets me no end. Every single bird toy I have is from TNT! I guess I will not post any more photos of them or my birds playing with them.

[plax]

Once again, I do feel you made a blanket statement about plastic pieces.A blanket conclusion is when someone assumes that one standard applies to everything. For example, an assumption that every toy material presents an equal risk to a bird's health and safety is a blanket conclusion. Such an assumption is simply inaccurate. But nonetheless it seems to be the opinion you've put forward herein. Conversely, to state that given enough pressure, most (or all) *hard* plastic parts tend to fracture leaving sharp edges, and that, if ingested, those sharp edges present a greater likelihood for injury to a bird's internal organs than would parts that are not brittle like *hard* plastics, is not a blanket conclusion. Instead it's a rather specific conclusion.


It's perfectly fine if you feel that you don't want to give plastic parts to your birds but you are indeed making a blanket statement about all plastic parts by stating that they are all dangerous...this just isn't true.Again, there have been no blanket statements from me. I've consistently placed the adjective "hard" before each of my references to "plastic" and "acrylic" in order to specify precisely which materials stand the risk of fracturing to the point of sharp edge exposure. I've never stated or implied the same of softer plastic materials. I think my statements have been reasonably specific.


As to why I never came back and posted again to my initial introductory post, that would be because I was told that if I wanted to post here I would have to advertise your forum on my web site and I didn't feel comfortable with that considering I had no real intention of doing any true advertising here. I also don't like the fact that every post I put on here is moderated. This isn't the kind of community that I care to belong to.You have apparently been given incorrect information. Posting on this forum site does not require inclusion of a backlink on the posting member's website. It never has and it never will. However, advertising one's bird-related business within the post signature block area is an exchange privilege for which we ask that the member add a backlink to the relevant website. It doesn't cost anything, it's free, and it's easy to do. I believe that's a very fair policy. Why should any member expect us to allow them to promote their business with permanent links on each of their posts without doing us a return favor that is not much trouble and doesn't cost them a cent? In any event, I feel that for someone to introduce themselves and then simply abandon the greeting replies from folks seems rude, not to mention unprofessional.

The reason your posts have been moderated was temporary and nothing personal. It was because we had an individual who joined our community, became quite angry with another member, was banned for inappropriate aggression and then resorted to using proxy connections and false identities to heavily spam our forums with stolen photos from the victim. And ours was not the only forum site targeted by this individual. I chose to implement post moderation on a temporary basis to screen for said individual's presence behind the false identities and proxy IP connections. That's all it was. For what it's worth, your posts are no longer being moderated.

[Dragonlady2]

I think that there has been some valid points made in this thread on both sides. I am also finding there is a lot of reactivity ( is that even a word? Lol) to perceived inferences, that as an outsider, I did not see.
However, I will make the point here, and I will probably take some heat for it, once there is what I call, a blurring of the lines between business and personal, there tends to be difficulties IMO.
An example I will use comes from another forum. There are now so many vendors there and people that support them, that it almost seems it is becoming the main or driving force of the forum. People have come on the forum looking for information as to where to purchase specific products. The immediate response is to direct, advise, suggest....pick the word, to a forum vendor and almost discount any other suggestion. There are relationships that are quite evident between the vendors and the people recommending them. This is just me, but I can be oppositional and it has the reverse effect on me in that I will not buy from any vendor on that forum. .
I think people just want to support and help each other out. Particularly when the goal is the same, care of our birds. But when the " group" gets so large, it can get emotionally charged as well. It's unfortunate and I hope that this forum continues to be able to have open discussions about what is in the best interest of our birds. In the end, isn't that what it's about?

[The Pinkertons]

I think that there has been some valid points made in this thread on both sides. I am also finding there is a lot of reactivity ( is that even a word? Lol) to perceived inferences, that as an outsider, I did not see.
However, I will make the point here, and I will probably take some heat for it, once there is what I call, a blurring of the lines between business and personal, there tends to be difficulties IMO.
An example I will use comes from another forum. There are now so many vendors there and people that support them, that it almost seems it is becoming the main or driving force of the forum. People have come on the forum looking for information as to where to purchase specific products. The immediate response is to direct, advise, suggest....pick the word, to a forum vendor and almost discount any other suggestion. There are relationships that are quite evident between the vendors and the people recommending them. This is just me, but I can be oppositional and it has the reverse effect on me in that I will not buy from any vendor on that forum. .
I think people just want to support and help each other out. Particularly when the goal is the same, care of our birds. But when the " group" gets so large, it can get emotionally charged as well. It's unfortunate and I hope that this forum continues to be able to have open discussions about what is in the best interest of our birds. In the end, isn't that what it's about? Thank you Helena for your unbiased opinion...sometimes we need to take a step back when situations escalate, as the case here .

I too hope to continue to have open discussions about the welfare of our birds.
I feel that sometimes we have to have a little lightheartedness with some of these topics. Keeping in mind to put ego aside . Enjoy the discussion on neutral ground , which I realize can be difficult. It's sad to witness wounded egos, these Groups are like a family per say. And Family have feuds, But at the end of the day hopefully work through their differences, because thats what makes for a strong bond in any relationship. :grouphug:

[Mare]

Wow..I can see I've been missed! JK :). Helena, great post. I, too, buy only toys for my birds that I think THEY may like. The bigger parrots are so destructive that I only spend the big bucks on an expensive toy..maybe, once a year. They are completely, just as happy destroying the wood pine blocks that Tim cuts for me and I string on a strong wire.

Folks feeling attacked, in truth, may be perceiving it wrong?..?..I don't know but PLEASE..let's try and have an open mind and just get along :). Makes life so much more pleasant.

[Shyra]

Helena, I agree with what you are saying and that is one of the reasons I stopped participating in that group. Seemed more advertisement than information. In regards to what was implied earlier I know Jen did not join this group for advertisement purposes because she is the one who asked me to join here. Through another member we were told this group was about exchanging information and sharing. And Tony just so you know the reason Jen didn't post on the welcome group is because she's had a lot going on in her life since she first joined. Unlike some people such as myself, she is not on the computer on a daily basis and let's face it after a few days pass it's sometimes hard to post on a thread that everyone has moved on from. But yes like any person would do if something of theirs was being criticized, Jen jumped on to defend herself because safety is a huge priority with her just like it is with me. I used to sell toy parts and will say some of the parts I see used in bird toys is scary. I do think it's good to point out the good and bad of each toy part so that owners will have an idea as to what to look for when their birds play with toys. This is something I am very passionate about as I know others are. Even if we don't agree on particular parts, I agree that emotions need to be left out of it so that the original intent doesn't get lost.

[plax]

And Tony just so you know the reason Jen didn't post on the welcome group is because she's had a lot going on in her life since she first joined. Unlike some people such as myself, she is not on the computer on a daily basis and let's face it after a few days pass it's sometimes hard to post on a thread that everyone has moved on from. But yes like any person would do if something of theirs was being criticized, Jen jumped on to defend herself because safety is a huge priority with her just like it is with me. I used to sell toy parts and will say some of the parts I see used in bird toys is scary. I do think it's good to point out the good and bad of each toy part so that owners will have an idea as to what to look for when their birds play with toys. This is something I am very passionate about as I know others are. Even if we don't agree on particular parts, I agree that emotions need to be left out of it so that the original intent doesn't get lost.Thanks for your response and your effort to explain, Shyra. I'm however a bit confused by your explanation. While your reasoning makes sense, it doesn't seem to comport with the reason Jen gave earlier this morning. That explanation is as follows:


As to why I never came back and posted again to my initial introductory post, that would be because I was told that if I wanted to post here I would have to advertise your forum on my web site and I didn't feel comfortable with that considering I had no real intention of doing any true advertising here. I also don't like the fact that every post I put on here is moderated. This isn't the kind of community that I care to belong to.

On a side note, post #21 in this thread is my response to Jen's post this morning. Although I posted it at 6:19 AM, the validation on Jens post -which I was certain I executed- in fact didn't take for some reason. This resulted in my reply post to her not appearing either. I re-exectuted the validation so each of the posts is now public and should appear in the correct order with actual time of creation timestamps.

I have disabled post moderation for everyone. We only need it enabled on rare occasion.

[Shyra]

Tony:

First let me say thank you for getting rid of the moderation. It was nice to be able to post today with no delays. As for Jen actually it is the same as what I said as far as the welcome posts go. She and I have talked about this before. When you have to be moderated, which I understand the reasoning where trolls and such are concerned, it takes the fun out of it because your reply doesn't show up in the sequence you would like it to for it to be relevant. Add that to a busy schedule and you figure what's the point. But I will let Jen speak for herself for now on. Goodness knows she doesn't need me to do it for her. :th_wink:

[plax]

Tony:

First let me say thank you for getting rid of the moderation. It was nice to be able to post today with no delays. As for Jen actually it is the same as what I said as far as the welcome posts go. She and I have talked about this before. When you have to be moderated, which I understand the reasoning where trolls and such are concerned, it takes the fun out of it because your reply doesn't show up in the sequence you would like it to for it to be relevant. Add that to a busy schedule and you figure what's the point. But I will let Jen speak for herself for now on. Goodness knows she doesn't need me to do it for her. :th_wink:As you can see, Shyra, Jen said that her main reason for failing to revisit her introduction thread was the incorrect information she received about there being a requirement to place a backlink for PP on her website if she intended to post here. As I've stated, there is no such requirement. The backlink is only required for advertising in signatures. And anyone concerned about the post moderation should have checked with me. I would have explained that the moderation measure in place would only last for a member's first few posts and then automatically drop off. And that's the only post moderation behavior that's ever been implemented here, by the way. Just a few posts until complete posting freedom, purely to protect our community from the then-current potential post-flooding spam attacks we had encountered. And again, the enablement of said moderation was only temporary. I personally feel that should not have been so intolerable. But of course neither of you knew because neither of you checked with me or, as far as I know, with another staff member concerning the matter. Assumption can often lead us to erroneous conclusions ;)

[Shyra]

Whether you had it on moderation for the reasons I thought or not it doesn't matter. It's your group and I wasn't complaining just stating a fact that it's more fun when there is no moderation and posts are able to be posted in sequence, but I accepted as owner you have the right to moderate and was abiding by that knowing that it was only for a short time. (I did read through all the policies when I joined.) As for this conversation I'm going to do as the song says and "let it go". Birds are more fun to talk about even if my annoying little grey won't stop pooping on my computer screen. LOL

[mdg1109]

Wow, this thread took a negative turn. Yet again I wasn't trying to start an argument, I was just happy that I got new toys for Charlie and try and give an independently owned business some advertising because that is what small businesses rely on is word of mouth.

I fully understand both side of the arguments but I agree with Dianne, you have to keep your bird supervised and know your bird especially with new toys, objects, people. I wasn't on here for a few days but the negative turn in the post kinda has me worried. I am all for a healthy debate but I don't really see the point of arguing with each other.

[plax]

Michelle: I'm disappointed that this issue exploded as well. However, warnings and alerts involving bird safety receive top priority at Precisely Parrots. When a valid safety warning is presented within a discussion thread and in turn that valid safety warning becomes publicly trivialized/criticized by certain members, said criticism significantly detracts from the impact of that valid safety warning. This means that future readers of the thread will be less likely to take the warning as seriously as they otherwise might, since the appearance is that the warning is buried in controversy. With the current issue, that likelihood may result in someone who comes across this very thread and happens to be the new guardian of a larger parrot that is prone to snap brittle objects -but who may not know the bird's personality and inclinations yet- mostly or fully ignoring the safety warning and thus allowing the new bird to interact with the plastic/acrylic objects at issue. And ignoring the warning in such a case creates the potential for a tragic end. We should be doing everything we can to avoid producing even one instance of this scenario that could result in injury or death to a parrot somewhere.

I made a one-line warning here (post #4). It should not have been challenged by anyone because it was presented in the best interest of companion parrots and their safety. No one here has the right to interfere with a valid safety warning. Period!

If some members feel resentful over my actions concerning this issue and thus choose to leave our community, it's truly a shame and I'm sincerely sorry to see them go. But social dynamics and pacification of members must be secondary to bird safety matters among this community. My hope is that most folks understand this value and will embrace it. Unfortunately, however, if they don't, our policy on safety warning priority will not change.

[bill-e]

My 2 cents.

Tony's comment would have gone over better it it had said,

"Nice looking toys. But two of them have a lot of hard plastic parts. My concern is that many birds will shatter or bite bits off of those and potentially ingest some of the shards. I don't consider them safe for all birds for that reason and therefore the purchaser should consider his/her bird's attributes carefully when making a toy selection".

To me, that statement should not have drawn any criticism. I see that the real issue are the words exchanged after the comment which I view as a little harsh by all parties.

Of course this is all hindsight. Hopefully you folks can make amends privately and we can get back to the business of enjoying our sometimes, loud, sometimes obnoxious, sometimes pain inflicting joys of our lives.

Personally I'd delete this thread.

Bill

[plax]

My 2 cents.

Tony's comment would have gone over better it it had said,

"Nice looking toys. But two of them have a lot of hard plastic parts. My concern is that many birds will shatter or bite bits off of those and potentially ingest some of the shards. I don't consider them safe for all birds for that reason and therefore the purchaser should consider his/her bird's attributes carefully when making a toy selection".That is the verbatim text from my initial post, Bill. In fact it's a copy n paste. The only thing you've added is: "and therefore the purchaser should consider his/her bird's attributes carefully when making a toy selection" and the "for all birds" part. To my mind, telling folks they should consider the attributes of one's bird is a pretty non-specific recommendation. It doesn't go on to elaborate on the power or the personality factors that may create more of a risk for certain birds than for others - I think an entire thread or article could be published about how to assess a bird's proneness in this regard. So your appended statement doesn't really provide much additional information than the foundational statement that I originally posted. My intent with that original reply was to present a general and brief warning concerning the potentially harmful materials. It was not intended to elaborate on the variables or to assess thresholds on bird size, strength, or personality. It was an alert about a real danger that may potentially render a tragic result for certain birds and their owners. It's a worthy and important warning which I don't believe deserved criticism. Honestly, I don't feel that had I tailored and appended a few additional suffix words that it would have made much difference as far as the negative feedback that ensued. But thanks for your opinion :)


To me, that statement should not have drawn any criticism. I see that the real issue are the words exchanged after the comment which I view as a little harsh by all parties.I agree. However, the warning is an important one that needed to be posted. It's a shame that its impact was diluted by the aftermath :(


Personally I'd delete this thread.All of this website's trials and tribulations remain intact. I would hate to ruin that record. But thank you for the suggestion.

[The Pinkertons]

My 2 cents.

Tony's comment would have gone over better it it had said,

"Nice looking toys. But two of them have a lot of hard plastic parts. My concern is that many birds will shatter or bite bits off of those and potentially ingest some of the shards. I don't consider them safe for all birds for that reason and therefore the purchaser should consider his/her bird's attributes carefully when making a toy selection".

To me, that statement should not have drawn any criticism. I see that the real issue are the words exchanged after the comment which I view as a little harsh by all parties.

Of course this is all hindsight. Hopefully you folks can make amends privately and we can get back to the business of enjoying our sometimes, loud, sometimes obnoxious, sometimes pain inflicting joys of our lives.

Personally I'd delete this thread.

BillHindsight is always 20/20 no one is perfect. I agree at the end of the day. We all shake hands and rally around what we are all here for "the love and safety of or birds large and small " . Learn and move on. Personally I think Tony is more than gracious allowing everyone to publicly bash him. I know for certain that wouldn't fly on other companion bird forums. so lets all step back, take a deep breath calm down and appreciate what we have here.

[mdg1109]

I am all for a healthy debate, I am guilty of sometimes taking things too personally and get upset but I do not let it change my views or opinions. I was just starting this post because I was happy that Charlie was getting new toys because I love him and I know how much he loves to play.

My most important job as a bird parent is keeping my bird safe, I would in no way endanger him by giving him something that would harm him and he is always supervised when he plays.

I am truly saddened by the outcome of this post and hope that everyone can respect each others thoughts and opinions and move forward. I obviously am not on PP as much because of going back to work and I did not read all of the posts on this thread.

[The Pinkertons]

I am all for a healthy debate, I am guilty of sometimes taking things too personally and get upset but I do not let it change my views or opinions. I was just starting this post because I was happy that Charlie was getting new toys because I love him and I know how much he loves to play.

My most important job as a bird parent is keeping my bird safe, I would in no way endanger him by giving him something that would harm him and he is always supervised when he plays.

I am truly saddened by the outcome of this post and hope that everyone can respect each others thoughts and opinions and move forward. I obviously am not on PP as much because of going back to work and I did not read all of the posts on this thread. No Worries Michelle...
I would really miss chatting with you on "Our Form".

I consider us a Cyber Family of sorts. Since we are a rather close knit group, We all tend to interact on a somewhat intimate manner here on PP.
I feel it is a genuine and unique quality, the other Forums simply do not possess.

Please try to understand, Tony is not trying to threaten, criticize , or belittle anyone, He was merely bringing to your attention that those particular types of toys could pose a potential risk to your bird. Because they are more suited for a smaller bird. Like a Conure size beak. Just for comparison my Cockatoo's beaks are smaller than Charlie's. Bella would trash those toys in a split second...Just saying.

Welcome Home :toyou:

[Lady]

This thread was difficult for me to read as it exploded with so much controversy.

I agree with Tony's point about the hard plastic. When he said shards of hard plastic I stopped reading and went to look at Lady's toys. You can bet they had some hard plastic on them, or now I can say did have. Thinking that I could stop her or even see that she may swallow small pieces is something I don't want to imagine.

I appreciate the words of wisdom that are printed on this forum. I learn so much here. Lady would love to play with the toys that you showed, but that doesn't mean I should give them to her. I surely hope we all consider that things that are said here are to help each other and our birds.

I am even a bit concerned about the kind of wood that is used on each toy. I will be going on some of the past threads and re read about the different types of wood that is used. Heaven knows we don't want any pieces of anything that is not food in them. The thread about clothing or strings that were talked about a little bit ago was scary enough.

[mdg1109]

No Worries Michelle...
I would really miss chatting with you on "Our Form".

I consider us a Cyber Family of sorts. Since we are a rather close knit group, We all tend to interact on a somewhat intimate manner here on PP.
I feel it is a genuine and unique quality, the other Forums simply do not possess.

Please try to understand, Tony is not trying to threaten, criticize , or belittle anyone, He was merely bringing to your attention that those particular types of toys could pose a potential risk to your bird. Because they are more suited for a smaller bird. Like a Conure size beak. Just for comparison my Cockatoo's beaks are smaller than Charlie's. Bella would trash those toys in a split second...Just saying.

Welcome Home :toyou:

Thank you Suzanne. I agree we are a tight knit group and within all families there are bound to be disagreements. As long as the disagreements do not belittle anyone or disrespect anyone I think that is ok. I definitely agree that our birds safety is most important, I would never do anything to put Charlie in harms way or support or encourage anyone to do that to their birds. I understand Tony was just wanting to point out the potential dangers, I think that every bird owner should realize what their bird is capable of and keep a very watchful eye on them with their toys especially new ones. I am saddened however at the turn this thread took, I never like to see people leave.

Well, the clock is telling me it is time to start getting ready for the day. I am happy to be a part of this forum, it is like a home away from home with like mind bird folks. Have a great day! :big_hug::p97::heart:

[The Pinkertons]

Same to you Michelle... Have a wonderful day! :sentimental: