Challenging a Hy SCAMMER!

[PlaxMacaws]

Suzanne approached me yesterday about a website advertising Hyacinth Macaws at extremely low prices. The SCAM light immediately began flashing. As many of you may know, nonexistent Hys are among the favorite false items to present for sale by pet scammers. They typically create websites or place ads on classifieds lists to fish for victims. The scam ploys often include photos stolen from elsewhere on the Internet as well as impossibly low prices for the nonexistent birds.

The site at issue this time is: [Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks]

While it was quite evidently a scam site, Suzanne suggested that I employ some techniques that I've used in the past (to interrogate scammers) in order to investigate those behind the scam. Be warned that one of my techniques has been to assume a false identity - you have to fight fire with fire when confronting these guys. So yesterday evening I began the process. While it's not possible to learn everything, I learned what I could. And that was enough! I tricked the site operator into visiting one of my own websites so I could ascertain his personal IP address and thus determine his true physical location. That location turned out to be in the Philippines. Below, I will paste the email exchange that I had with this person. You may judge it for yourself.

royal parrots wrote:
Hello this is regarding the Hyacinth Macaws we called the number you contacted us with the lady said she knew no one by the name Jason Kramer
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Jason Kramer wrote:
Hello,

I apologize but I may have reversed the digits in my new phone number when I filled out your message form. I'm not used to the number yet and I notice that I've mixed the digits on my web page (which I have corrected). My actual new number is 503-5**-7*** ... please try this corrected number. I very much want to purchase one of your beautiful macaws! I'll be anxiously awaiting your call.

By the way, where are you located?

Thanks much!
Jason Kramer
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royal parrots wrote:
we are located in Maryland and will ship to you in OR and shipping will take 24 hours for the bird to arrive and be delivered
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Jason Kramer wrote:
Thank you for that. So my bird will be coming to Oregon from Maryland then, right? And will you please answer the following questions for me: How do I choose a specific bird from those available, and how do I make the payment to you? If I send you a deposit only, how much do I need to send? And how is the shipping charge handled?

Thanks much,
Jason
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royal parrots wrote:
Kindly visit the link provided below to select and we accept payment through Western Union if you want to make a deposit it has to be 50% of the amount shipping cost is $150.
[Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks]
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Jason Kramer wrote:
Are either Pascal, Alaine, or Nadia still available? And where do I wire the money?

Thanks,
Jason Kramer
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royal parrots wrote:
we only have Alaine available out of the one's you selected and you will be making the payment directly to us here using the details of our accountant and how soon are you ready to send the payment through Western Union?
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Jason Kramer wrote:
Alaine will be fine. A very nice looking macaw! Just give me the information that I will need for the wire transfer please. I've just checked with Western Union and was advised that in addition to providing you with the tracking number for the funds, I will need to as well specify the location at which the money will be received (i.e., the state). So my next question for you is: should I wire the money for pickup within the sate of Maryland? If not, please let me know how to proceed.

Thanks
Jason
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royal parrots wrote:
Here is the details below and make it available for pick up in the state as provided below and money in 10 minutes so that it can be picked up and we proceed with contract
Names:::Anthony Go**en
State:::Maryland
City::::Baltimore
Zip code::::21201
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Jason Kramer wrote:
Here's the problem. I know that you don't really have the parrots you are advertising. And from your IP address (120.29.75.232), I know that you are not within the state of Maryland. Your ISP is Comclark Cable Internet and your IP range only serves the Philippines. However, you apparently have someone within the state of Maryland to receive the funds for you from your unsuspecting victims. Your website, [Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks] is currently listed as a scam site, and common sense holds that any legitimate business would not be satisfied to use a free subdomain on the weebly.com domain for purposes of advertising and transacting lawful business activities. Moreover, the hyacinth macaw photos you have posted within your "available-parrots" sub-directory were each taken at entirely different locations, certainly not at a single breeding facility or aviary. Some of those photos are in fact of wild hyacinth macaws thriving among their natural habitats. Despite this, you are presenting them as captive birds with names who are for sale. The images have clearly been stolen from various locations on the Internet.

Why are you trying to steal money from unsuspecting folks for nonexsitent, expensive birds? Do you somehow feel that if people are gullible enough to believe your claims they deserve to be victimized? I don't quite understand your philosophy in that regard... are you willing to enlighten me?

I understand that it is likely you will no longer respond to me. But I'm hoping that you will.

Jason Kramer
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royal parrots wrote:
then that is a mistake maybe my ip shows Philippines because i created the email way back there when i got my first pairs and if the weebly site is on scam we are not the people scaming can't you recall that the pics have been taken from us to be used by other people for scams we are not here for that sir and we have a lot of references which we can give you to fine out if they have reserve or bought from us and do you also think some one who has nothing will ever say something is no longer available? so you also think except you don't want to proceed it will be your choice but not because you think we don't have the birds
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Jason Kramer wrote:
I'm unsure what you are attempting to explain about your IP address. Your IP, 120.29.75.232, is not a proxy address and you have been using it as recently as today. Quite simply that means your connection is emerging from the Philippines. The other points that I've made in my previous reply stand on their own merits. If you wish to provide references to me, as you say you will do, please do so. I will contact those references if/when provided.

As for your question about telling me some of the birds listed on your website are no longer available, of course you might do that despite the fact that you have no birds at all. Why? Simply because it may create an appearance that you're honest - when the opposite is actually true. After all, you hope to win the confidence of your potential victims so you can steal their money.

Thank you.
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And here are the presumably stolen photos posted on the site:

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In case anyone is interested, here's another macaw scammer sting effort that I conducted in early 2013 and reported on PF: [Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks]

[mdg1109]

Tony thank you for looking out for people, you are awesome for doing so.

Did you report this to the Maryland State Police, they have a division the specifically handles fraud/internet scams.

[PlaxMacaws]

Tony thank you for looking out for people, you are awesome for doing so.

Did you report this to the Maryland State Police, they have a division the specifically handles fraud/internet scams.No Michelle. However, I reported it to Western Union's fraud section.

[lolsavannahh]

HA! I did the same thing a few months back on craigstlist with someone selling a HY for only about $2000.. Claimed they moved and couldn't take care of him.. Was friendly to everyone, never screamed, and was cuddly ( sounds more like a stuffed animal to me.. ) I emailed them all interested and then told them the deal.> Haven't seen them on craigslist since!

[spiritbird]

PP people make great bird police. There was an African Grey on CL the other day. It sounded too good to be true. Photos were very good also. Maybe we should have a forum for suspected scams to check on. Tony you teach us how to scare them away?

[mdg1109]

Is there a way to post a comment on Weebly that the people are scammers? I would post about them on there and I would also report it to the Maryland State Police.

[PlaxMacaws]

Is there a way to post a comment on Weebly that the people are scammers? I would post about them on there and I would also report it to the Maryland State Police.Weebly has a contact form for reporting their sites at: [Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks] But I'm not sure they would remove the site merely based upon the low bird prices in conjunction with my opinion that its purpose is to scam folks out of their money. My guess is that to get weebly to remove the site, a complainant would have to actually be a victim of the scam. And that would preclude me. And there is a community message board at: [Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks] But I believe one must become a member to post there.

In my opinion, reporting the issue to the Maryland State Police would likely go nowhere. And that's because: 1) There's no proof that the party behind the "business" is committing a crime. And 2) that party resides out of the jurisdiction of said police agency (the perpetrators are in the Philippines). Additionally, the only contact information that I possess for them beyond the website and the IP that I captured is the name of an apparent associate who may, or may not reside within the state of Maryland. And there's a fair chance that said name is false. In order to pick up WU wired funds all that's required is one piece of photo ID (which is easily forged) and the tracking number.

I also have to mention that I doubt either weebly or the Maryland State Police would approve of the method that I employed to interrogate the suspect (i.e., my assumption of a false identity during an email exchange). Hopefully you can appreciate my concern in that regard.

It's a noble thought though, Michelle :)

[Casper's 2nd best friend]

Fortunately these are not parrot people just crims on the make. They do the same thing with classic cars. Fortunately most of them aren't very good at it and don't understand the subtleties of language. Have you tried the "I need you to send me fifty bucks to prove that you are a legitimate seller" ruse? If they are really stupid you can scam the scammer. :)

Tony, you don't have to give any information to the police about how you know they are scammers, just say its obvious, low price and fake pics etc. and let them do the detective work themselves (probably using the same techniques).

[PlaxMacaws]

Tony, you don't have to give any information to the police about how you know they are scammers, just say its obvious, low price and fake pics etc. and let them do the detective work themselves (probably using the same techniques).Not with our police, Jean-Pierre :(. They generally won't bother with things like this. Just ask one of our members who was recently harassed on this and other message boards by someone sharing her photos and posing as her via false login identities. Despite the mountains of evidence that I've gathered and retained in the case, and even despite that I and others have determined the personal identity of the perpetrator, the victim's state police agency is apparently uninterested (or unable) to do anything about the crimes involved. So it's not as easy as one might think - at least on this side of the pond :(

[Doublete]

Not with our police, Jean-Pierre :(. They generally won't bother with things like this. Just ask one of our members who was recently harassed on this and other message boards by someone sharing her photos and posing as her via false login identities. Despite the mountains of evidence that I've gathered and retained in the case, and even despite that I and others have determined the personal identity of the perpetrator, the victim's state police agency is apparently uninterested (or unable) to do anything about the crimes involved. So it's not as easy as one might think - at least on this side of the pond :(

Entirely correct and Maryland state police is the one in question.
They simply don't care enough. Bigger fish to fry I guess. All they'll give you in many cases is a "sorry for your tears but good luck".

[PlaxMacaws]

There you go, Jean-Pierre. Doublete is the victimized member to whom I referred. Thank you for substantiating my comment, Doublete.

[Casper's 2nd best friend]

I know that our regional police force have an internet fraud department but as you point out this would probably be a very low priority and more a case of caveat emptor. I know that ebay respond to complaints about this sort of fraud and social media can be a useful tool to spread the word, not only about the seller but also to put pressure on the website owners. Companies don't like bad publicity when it affects sales.

[Macaw Lover]

You really can't blame the police for not wanting to spend their resources on a scam that has not even happened in a complaint they would receive. They need to first deal with the murders, shootings, drug busts first. Let's face it, a 'possible' scam is very low on the totem pole but us little people can post warnings or in some cases, contact the site who might stop them from posting on their sites.

[Doublete]

There you go, Jean-Pierre. Doublete is the victimized member to whom I referred. Thank you for substantiating my comment, Doublete.

Any time. The support you gave me was far more than I got from police. The last email
which came about a month after filing the report of harassment was so frustrating and ridiculous that I wanted to throw my phone.

[PlaxMacaws]

Any time. The support you gave me was far more than I got from police. The last email
which came about a month after filing the report of harassment was so frustrating and ridiculous that I wanted to throw my phone.It's astonishing what people seem to be able to get away with in this country. I'm truly sorry that you had to experience the ordeal :(

[PlaxMacaws]

Below is a link to a good warning article from birdtricks.com about bird scammers. It was published several years ago, but is nonetheless still valid in its presentation of the steps scammers will take to steal money from people.

How to Spot & Avoid Online Parrot Selling Scams ([Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks])

[The Pinkertons]

Thanks Tony for following up . If I had money to waste I would love to plan a sting operation on these crooks and others like them. I wonder what they would say if you asked them, you would like to see the Baby's you are interested in. For example ask if you could visit the Aviary, wherever they say they are located you could respond with oh I live in the area. Is it possible to set up an appointment . After all ethical Breeders welcome people to visit.

[PlaxMacaws]

Thanks Tony for following up . If I had money to waste I would love to plan a sting operation on these crooks and others like them. I wonder what they would say if you asked them, you would like to see the Baby's you are interested in. For example ask if you could visit the Aviary, wherever they say they are located you could respond with oh I live in the area. Is it possible to set up an appointment . After all ethical Breeders welcome people to visit.Yes, absolutely. We could have asked Dianne if she were willing to stop by this alleged "royal hyacinth macaw" facility since they claimed to be located in Maryland. They undoubtedly would have swerved and ducked if I had done that. It's also always a good idea to ask for their vet's contact information and then, if provided, make contact with whomever they name... and obviously confirm that the so-called vet is licensed and works for a legitimate clinical practice. If none of that checks out then there's extreme likelihood it's a scam situation.

[The Pinkertons]

Yes, absolutely. We could have asked Dianne if she were willing to stop by this alleged "royal hyacinth macaw" facility since they claimed to be located in Maryland. They undoubtedly would have swerved and ducked if I had done that. It's also always a good idea to ask for their vet's contact information and then, if provided, make contact with whomever they name... and obviously confirm that the so-called vet is licensed and works for a legitimate clinical practice. If none of that checks out then there's extreme likelihood it's a scam situation. And if by any chance they come up clean . I'll be the first one to purchase " Two Hy Baby's " what the heck for those prices I'll even fly there myself and pick them up !

[PlaxMacaws]

And if by any chance they come up clean . I'll be the first one to purchase " Two Hy Baby's " what the heck for those prices I'll even fly there myself and pick them up !Grand thought... but I'm entirely certain they're a scam. You can ask Dianne if you like, though ;)

[The Pinkertons]

I'm pretty sure too, I'm just joking around.