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lolsavannahh
03-05-2016, 03:50 AM
Hey all, not sure if you're a member of parrotforums.com ... but I just kinda wanted to share a few opinions here..

They all seem very very rude and snobby there, and any time I have voiced my opinion ( and made sure to say it was an OPINION ) I still get attacked and rideculed and then called "condescending" and " Rude" to the member whom I was trying to talk with about a topic they asked to get opinions on.

I have never once had a problem here, and we talk about the same stuff! I voice the same opinions here and never say " EVERY OWNER SHOULD DO THIS AND IF YOU DON'T YOU'RE A MONSTER!" , yet they take it that way..

Has anyone else had some bad experiences over there? It's not a very welcoming habitat at all.. I have been a member for about a week and everything I say gets ridiculed for no good reason.

Mare
03-05-2016, 04:06 AM
Umm..no, I was banned from that forum for being a member on this one, though. It's not fair, at all..but that seems to be the way they work. We here, don't care who you associate with.

That didn't sound so good :). I've found that other forums don't like to share some members, even though I know members on this forum are members elsewhere..what the heck. Don't be controversial..maybe?..

lolsavannahh
03-05-2016, 04:09 AM
That's so crazy! Why would they care, it's not like you're giving either of these forums money!

I would ALWAYS choose this forum over the other because you are ALL very welcoming and kind even when discussing controversial topics.. They don't seem to care about the other side of an argument

Mare
03-05-2016, 04:28 AM
True. Savannah, it's a mystery to me, too. You could get me going on this subject but I feel like I better not..just for prosperity's sake! Come on, folks..get involved :)

spiritbird
03-05-2016, 04:29 AM
I was a mod there for several years. Without giving you a long history I left for good reasons and was banned months later. Crazy!

I too could go on and on but best not to.

PlaxMacaws
03-05-2016, 04:49 AM
I was banned from PF for starting PP :indecisiveness:

Doublete
03-05-2016, 04:55 AM
I'm a member of 3 forums. I don't find any to be any "worse" than others.

Any time you post on an Internet forum you have to realize tone is generally misinterpreted. Sometimes people scan quickly and post what they think will be helpful only for it to be read the way they didn't realize it would be seen. Also NEVER take things personally. It's someone on the other side of a computer.
They very well could be lying about who and what they are....in a negative way... Or they could be one of the most amazing people you will ever meet..


And... FWIW.. I don't have time to scan your thread that is bothering you, but any thread about the parrot wizard is going to create arguments and strong wording. Many people just feel very strongly about him.

I argued with a college friend on fb today about mustangs. She thinks they're not part of our history because they're an invasive species brought by the conquistadors... Pushed about every nerve in my body. By her reasoning then the slaves brought here (and entire RACE in North America) were an invasive species too. She's wrong. But she thinks she's right. So I ignored all posts by her til I calm down. :)

Mare
03-05-2016, 05:29 AM
Doublete, out of curiosity is your college friend Native American? If not, she too would be invasive :). People on other forums felt very strongly about my doings with Amigo and his free flight escapades and rather than be understanding..went into attack mode! Yikes! When this happens, I don't think you can be anything but defensive.

Doublete
03-05-2016, 01:06 PM
Doublete, out of curiosity is your college friend Native American? If not, she too would be invasive :). People on other forums felt very strongly about my doings with Amigo and his free flight escapades and rather than be understanding..went into attack mode! Yikes! When this happens, I don't think you can be anything but defensive.
Nope she isn't! But if I bring that up it'll just start the fight again lol.

lolsavannahh
03-05-2016, 02:55 PM
Yeah I finally just quit after a mod messaged me telling me how 'Inappropriate' I was being..

I don't want to get into detail but it just seems like nobody read my post at full, or even that they read it past 2 sentences.. They immediately got the mods in and were like " She's being mean!".. Kinda childish..

I really love this forum and i hope to keep it that way because you are all amazing people! Amigo is so lucky to be able to free fly out there! I wish every bird could be free again, but I know that's impossible

Allee
03-05-2016, 05:39 PM
On behalf of ParrotForums, with all due respect, we would never allow anyone to start a thread for the sole purpose of discussing another parrot forum or it's mods, members or admin.

spiritbird
03-05-2016, 05:40 PM
Glad you are here with us Savannah.

Mare
03-05-2016, 06:55 PM
On behalf of ParrotForums, with all due respect, we would never allow anyone to start a thread for the sole purpose of discussing another parrot forum or it's mods, members or admin.


I suppose this sets us apart, Allee. We are on the "Controversial Topics" page, I do believe :)

PlaxMacaws
03-05-2016, 07:14 PM
On behalf of ParrotForums, with all due respect, we would never allow anyone to start a thread for the sole purpose of discussing another parrot forum or it's mods, members or admin.With all due respect to you, Allee, we are a bit different here. We don't want to censor the opinions of our members, as long as they place those opinions within the correct forum categories. I'm unsure whether it's an unwritten code of ethics (or just what) for bird forum management teams to disallow discussion of other bird forums and their policies, and to forbid the sharing of member experiences involving those other forums. But here, unless malicious intent is evident, or unless a discussion evolves to become significantly disruptive to our community, or unless blatant personal insults begin emerging, the discussion of other pet bird forums IS allowed.

Conversely, there is conduct that's permitted on ParrotForums (as well as on certain other bird boards) that is disallowed here. And it's disallowed here with good reason. I'm specifically speaking about conduct which can (and does) unnecessarily perpetuate lethal risk upon pet birds. That would be allowing the public posting of images, videos and/or descriptions that display, suggest or otherwise support physical contact between companion birds and predatory pets that are large and capable enough to inflict harm upon or kill those birds. This particular type of content is strictly forbidden among our community. Attempting to preclude situations that may impose extreme danger upon innocent pets is far more important than injuring someone's feelings, in my view. And it is my view that happens to be the bottom line here.

Please consider this: Each time another instance of such "adorable" species-to-species content is publicly posted on a discussion board, or on a dedicated media sharing website, or on any social network platform, that content becomes yet an additional item of encouragement for folks to place their pets in danger - an additional 'seed' is born with each new instance, if you will. There have been many unnecessarily maimed or slaughtered companion birds throughout the reign of the Internet simply because certain pet owners have derived said encouragement to duplicate those species-to-species scenarios depicted within materials that possess that "cute" factor. This particular forum community will simply not contribute (in the slightest way) to such a perpetual cycle of horror! One single death of someone's innocent feathered companion stemming from this phenomenon is too many!

So, Allee, it's more or less a matter of philosophy and values. But most of all, for me, it's a matter of what is truly important. And the safety of our pets falls into that category ahead of all else.

spiritbird
03-05-2016, 07:45 PM
A discussion of other bird forums can serve multi purposes for our members where it is correctly posted.

Tony I could not have said it better!

The Pinkertons
03-05-2016, 08:19 PM
Yeah I finally just quit after a mod messaged me telling me how 'Inappropriate' I was being..

I don't want to get into detail but it just seems like nobody read my post at full, or even that they read it past 2 sentences.. They immediately got the mods in and were like " She's being mean!".. Kinda childish..

I really love this forum and i hope to keep it that way because you are all amazing people! Amigo is so lucky to be able to free fly out there! I wish every bird could be free again, but I know that's impossible
I am new to the world of forums, my first experience was at Avian Avenue, and a very bad one at that, I had an encounter with a someone on their "right off the get go"jumped all over me about my opinion on the topic/thread that this OP started about "FLIGHTED VS CLIPPED" this OP asked questions on various topics, and when others gave advice this OP would refute every suggestion that was given which turned into a escalated debate. Then the Mods would warn everyone to calm down, Lock the thread, this would go on and on with this person, I confronted one of the Mods in a respectful way, but I was told to tolerate or ignore this OP'. Many people tried to appeal to the Mod's to no avail. (This person has been Banned from many parrot forum's for starting trouble.) I don't get this kind of reasoning on the part of the Mod's, when ever someone tried to put this "trouble maker" in place the Mod's would reprimand the other people and coddle this troller. It seemed rather sadistic on the part of the Mod's, to make other members apologize, I got the vibe from Avian Avenue that it's a very tight click! mostly is bird toy vendors, as far as any in depth topics, I find it very unrewarding. I closed my account from that place. This Forum has substance... and is fair and balanced. :pp_rocks:

Oh one more thing, I truly appreciate the opportunity to have freedom of expression that is offered here. and the superior discernment that embodies the environment, "on this Forum" ( In my humble opinion Precisely Parrots is a five star Forum)

spiritbird
03-05-2016, 10:11 PM
Thank you so much Suzanne :loveit:

Mare
03-05-2016, 10:15 PM
AA's mods are definitely a tight click, reminded me of high school.

spiritbird
03-05-2016, 10:17 PM
Since we are talking about bird forums I will bring up Talk Budgies. I joined a while back when I had 2 budgies. There were so many inexperienced breeders asking for help I was astounded. Not one staff member said anything about indiscriminate budgie breeding to these posters. Most of them sounded like young people. Of course I spoke up about it and it was not well received. In the end I sent a note to the administration letting them know how they were in essence encouraging the breeding of more budgies when the world is full of homeless ones. Citing fact that most of these so called "breeders" had no idea what they were doing. I then left the forum never to return.

spiritbird
03-05-2016, 10:20 PM
I must say it is very nice to openly speak about our bird forum experiences as a group. I bet its a first on any bird forum!

The Pinkertons
03-05-2016, 10:23 PM
Thank you so much Suzanne :loveit: You are most welcome ! :th_smile:

The Pinkertons
03-05-2016, 10:29 PM
AA's mods are definitely a tight click, reminded me of high school. Exactly, you hit the nail on the head :watermelon:

The Pinkertons
03-05-2016, 10:32 PM
Since we are talking about bird forums I will bring up Talk Budgies. I joined a while back when I had 2 budgies. There were so many inexperienced breeders asking for help I was astounded. Not one staff member said anything about indiscriminate budgie breeding to these posters. Most of them sounded like young people. Of course I spoke up about it and it was not well received. In the end I sent a note to the administration letting them know how they were in essence encouraging the breeding of more budgies when the world is full of homeless ones. Citing fact that most of these so called "breeders" had no idea what they were doing. I then left the forum never to return.

:goodjob::th_smile:

Mare
03-05-2016, 10:35 PM
On a HIGH note, though..I wouldn't be here if people were nicer elsewhere! :).

The Pinkertons
03-05-2016, 10:46 PM
I must say it is very nice to openly speak about our bird forum experiences as a group. I bet its a first on any bird forum! Very refreshing I was getting discouraged, I felt like Avian Avenue and Others was a form of Fascism
Wikipedia says = QUOTE
Most scholars agree that a "fascist regime" is foremost an authoritarian form of government, Authoritarianism is thus a defining characteristic, :th_eek:

PlaxMacaws
03-05-2016, 10:46 PM
On a HIGH note, though..I wouldn't be here if people were nicer elsewhere! :).Gee Mare... do you mean you would leave us if folks on other bird boards started becoming more friendly? :(

The Pinkertons
03-05-2016, 10:50 PM
On a HIGH note, though..I wouldn't be here if people were nicer elsewhere! :). So true ! one door closes and another one opens :loveit:

Mare
03-05-2016, 10:51 PM
No, Tony :). I mean..if people were more friendly where I had originally landed I wouldn't have taken flight. I'm happy to have landed here and I think I will stay :)

If people "start" to become friendly..don't believe them.

The Pinkertons
03-05-2016, 10:53 PM
:oops2:
Gee Mare... do you mean you would leave us if folks on other bird boards started becoming more friendly? :(

PlaxMacaws
03-05-2016, 11:06 PM
No, Tony :). I mean..if people were more friendly where I had originally landed I wouldn't have taken flight. I'm happy to have landed here and I think I will stay :)

If people "start" to become friendly..don't believe them.I suspected that's what you were saying. I merely wanted to be sure ;). And I think you're right about those who suddenly chum up.

Allee
03-06-2016, 03:52 AM
I joined this forum for a specific purpose, I made Plax aware of that immediately. He was kind enough to allow me to remain a member, I appreciate the courtesy. My experience with forums is very limited, I was very fortunate, the first two I joined were exactly the ones I was looking for. I remained a member of both long after the questions I had asked were answered. I can't speak of being banned from any forum, I never have.

Mare, I do realize this section is for controversial topics, that's why I posted here. Pardon my curiosity, I found it intriguing when I noticed ParrotForums in the title. It looks like an informal conversation, thanks for allowing me to participate. If I may offer a slightly biased viewpoint. We often open new sub forums at the request of our members, I don't recall ever being asked to open a forum were soliciting funds or membership to other forums or discussions aimed at other parrot forums. Our board is a busy place, it's possible our members find far more interesting topics to discuss.

Savannah, you were given a warning in the thread itself and after posting yet again in the same manner, I sent you a pm. I didn't feel an infraction was necessary. I did not ban you until I received a pm this morning where you stated in a decidedly rude manner that each of our mod team members keep our heads in warm dark places. At that point I felt you would be much happier at a different forum, I'm happy to see you with a group of like minded people. There are a lot of parrot forums, I'm sure there is a comfortable fit for almost everyone.

Mare
03-06-2016, 04:25 AM
There are many genuine, good people on the other forums and I truly miss many of them. It just sucks that the bad ones get their way and ruin it for others..just saying..

Macaw Lover
03-06-2016, 04:36 AM
I had joined Parrot Forum a while back but then got my hand slapped when a member created a post saying she put her bird down (I think back and seem to remember it was a Macaw) when the bird was finally taken to a vet because it fell off the perch. The vet gave a diagnosis of the bird having seizures and without doing ANY testing or giving any medications they just put the bird down. Everyone else was saying all the 'so sorry's' and I was the one who (politely) got fricken mad for a bird being put down without anything done/tried first!!!!!! Pissed me off. Was that the proper diagnosis given when no tests were done or meds tried?????

Then there was another time, someone was going to be traveling to Indiana visiting or business or whatever, but that person was going to be picking up a Hyacinth for someone she knew that also lived up there in Alaska and I wrote a lot of stuffs she needed to do including exactly what crate she needed to buy and how to modify it to the specifications of the requirements the airlines now have and I said the addition of adding the mesh on the windows and door was to prevent the 'idiot' airlines employees from sticking their fingers inside. Well one lady took offense to that as she used to work for an airline and her husband still does. Makes me wonder if they were the ones to stick their fingers where they did not belong, otherwise why would she be so offended. I did not change my post and eventually a moderator did for me and that was the last time I would post anything on there.

Allee
03-06-2016, 04:38 AM
Plax, as different as our viewpoints may be, I still think both our forums have a number of similar goals, first and foremost to support and educate to the best of our ability in a nonjudgmental and kind manner and ultimately enrich the lives of as many parrots as possible.

Every person who joins ParrotForums receives a welcome message with links clearly stating our forum rules and guidelines, everyone is welcome to stay as long as they like, just like your forum, many of our rules are non negotiable, others are more flexible. We frequently deny continued membership to trolls, spammers and troublemakers and we also absolutely do not condone cruelty in any form. If any of our members are uncomfortable in a large community environment, we are arrogant enough to wish them well and watch them go. We feel the best interest of the forum as a whole outweighs the singular viewpoint of one member. Often the decision to ban a member is preferable to that member's presence causing several members to leave.

I have forged lasting friendships with many of our members and my fellow mods are like family. Perhaps one of the biggest differences in our forums is simply the size. It's understandable that some people are more comfortable in the atmosphere of the smaller forums, no shame there. Obviously a lot of members enjoy large virtual crowds, to each his own. The number of people we ban is very small in comparison to the number of members who register on a daily basis. If a little more effort is required to remain a contributing member of ParrotForums, so be it, I believe the benefits are well worth it.

I will not go into our policy on cute prey and predator photos, suffice it to say we feel our policies are sound. Our archives are filled with intelligent discussions on the topic, most, if not all encourages safety first. I look forward to an in depth discussion at another time. I admit, we are very fond of our photos, I see your group shares a live for pet pics, your avatars and signatures are very impressive.

Thanks for the pleasant conversation. Nothing newsworthy in my post, as many of you seem to have been members or mods on ParrotForums at one time or another.

lolsavannahh
03-06-2016, 06:04 AM
I mean sometimes it's not the person's fault that they just don't understand tone, but it seems you guys here are way more mature and understanding/willing to have the person explain before jumping down their throats.

I haven't joined any other parrot forums and I simply don't want to because I feel so at home here with all my other parront friends (:

I would understand shutting down a topic for being rude or mean about a certain player on another forum, but not just for saying you dislike them for obvious reasons. I was banned ( Surprise, surprise :P ), but glad I was!

Macaw Lover
03-06-2016, 01:34 PM
They do seem to ban a lot of people there. I know 2 other people that got ban from there and have to wonder if it was because they were on other forums also?????? Wonder if you have to pledge allegiance to them and them only in order for you to be allowed to stay. Oops, don't pick and choose for me and tell me what I can and cannot do. Doesn't work for me as I will speak up and say something when something is not right or worse, puts a bird in danger.

bill-e
03-06-2016, 02:30 PM
I'm not defending the forum but I've not had any issues on parrotforums.com. I've also not been participating in threads where I would need to give an opinion though so that may be why I've not had any issues.

Doublete
03-06-2016, 02:59 PM
Well I for one will defend. I am a member of AA, PF and here. And I find all to be welcoming communities. I joined all to share my experience with animal training and many years of animal husbandry. Also just to be part of a community because I don't have time for other things.

I don't start controversial topics, and I don't argue. Sometimes the internet is all about how you come across. If you sound immature or like you are making uneducated decisions, people WILL share their opinions in hopes of you making better ones.

Recently, my opinion differed from a member of each and she went off her rocker. I truly don't even remember what I said that set her off- I don't think it was worthy of the reaction. EACH forum handled the repercussions phenomenally and nobody played favorites.
Again, I've enjoyed my time on all 3 and never had experiences with any being unfair or negative in any way.

PlaxMacaws
03-06-2016, 08:40 PM
Plax, as different as our viewpoints may be, I still think both our forums have a number of similar goals, first and foremost to support and educate to the best of our ability in a nonjudgmental and kind manner and ultimately enrich the lives of as many parrots as possible.Fair enough. However, sometimes the collective management view, or the corporate one (PF is owned by Forum Foundry, Inc.), can, in practice, end up clouding or obstructing an ideal like the one you've laid out. PF's ultimate corporate objective is to generate profit for its parent company. It would be counterproductive for the administration of that company to impose a rule forbidding predator pet/prey pet media content since more folks than not are drawn in by those sorts of materials. PP, on the other hand, has no motivation for profit. We don't seek or accept sponsors and we hold safe pet practices as our ultimate priority. And please realize that I'm merely defining the differences between us and PF as I see them.


Every person who joins ParrotForums receives a welcome message with links clearly stating our forum rules and guidelines, everyone is welcome to stay as long as they like, just like your forum, many of our rules are non negotiable, others are more flexible. We frequently deny continued membership to trolls, spammers and troublemakers and we also absolutely do not condone cruelty in any form. If any of our members are uncomfortable in a large community environment, we are arrogant enough to wish them well and watch them go. We feel the best interest of the forum as a whole outweighs the singular viewpoint of one member. Often the decision to ban a member is preferable to that member's presence causing several members to leave.Correct me if I'm wrong. But I believe you and your colleagues at PF are required to support and enforce various company rules, guidelines and administrative preferences. Are you not?


I have forged lasting friendships with many of our members and my fellow mods are like family. Perhaps one of the biggest differences in our forums is simply the size. It's understandable that some people are more comfortable in the atmosphere of the smaller forums, no shame there. Obviously a lot of members enjoy large virtual crowds, to each his own. The number of people we ban is very small in comparison to the number of members who register on a daily basis. If a little more effort is required to remain a contributing member of ParrotForums, so be it, I believe the benefits are well worth it.That's fair enough.


I will not go into our policy on cute prey and predator photos, suffice it to say we feel our policies are sound. Our archives are filled with intelligent discussions on the topic, most, if not all encourages safety first. I look forward to an in depth discussion at another time. I admit, we are very fond of our photos, I see your group shares a live for pet pics, your avatars and signatures are very impressive.I'm aware of such "intelligent discussions" because I've taken part in many of them through the years. In fact, you should be able to find many of my contributions to such discussions within the PF archives. That is, unless some or all of them were physically removed - which is quite possible. The basic arguments in favor of being allowed to publish such content, are: 1) "It should be exclusively up to individual pet owners to judge how their pets will get along together - people typically know their pets!"; 2) "As long as physical intermingling of the pets is supervised, a human can always step in to intervene if need be."; 3) "I know my [cat or dog] as a family member and he/she would never harm my bird!"; 4) "It's none of your concern what I decide to do with my pets... mind your own damn business!"

The problem is that none of those retorts is consistent with reality. As for retort 1, it is indeed, unfortunately, up to the individual pet owner. And disturbingly, that very fact results in countless bird deaths around the world each year. People often impose idealism over potential, which is a huge mistake when the stakes are so high. The birds involved neither have a choice nor understand the situations they are placed into by their owners or the potentials that are created. It's simply unfair to a small pet for its owner to place his or her personal gratifications above that pet's safety. As for retort 2, it is virtually impossible for a human to act quickly enough to intervene during a point-blank pet attack... even if the human is sitting or standing right next to the animals. As for retort 3, many a folk who had genuinely believed such a tragedy could never happen were sadly awakened to reality when it in fact did :'(. The only safe measure is consistent isolation of larger predator pets from smaller prey pets. As for retort 4, it's an example of the bull-headed arrogance that usually precludes any further communication on the matter. And that's very sad considering the seriousness of this topic.

I won't bother revisiting the encouragement/influence factor posed by the published media content. I think I've made my point on that and I believe that the reality involved should be evident to those of reason.


Thanks for the pleasant conversation. Nothing newsworthy in my post, as many of you seem to have been members or mods on ParrotForums at one time or another.Yes indeed, many of us have been. In fact, the creation of PP stemmed directly from the apathetic policy on PF concerning species-to-species intermingling.

lolsavannahh
03-07-2016, 02:01 AM
Savannah, you were given a warning in the thread itself and after posting yet again in the same manner, I sent you a pm. I didn't feel an infraction was necessary. I did not ban you until I received a pm this morning where you stated in a decidedly rude manner that each of our mod team members keep our heads in warm dark places. At that point I felt you would be much happier at a different forum, I'm happy to see you with a group of like minded people. There are a lot of parrot forums, I'm sure there is a comfortable fit for almost everyone.

Yes, After I ( not anyone else in the discussion ) was given a warning about the topic I did feel the need to defend myself against said mod and other players who thought I was out to get them. I actually AGREED with the first posting member about her viewpoints but somehow she took it as me saying I didn't agree and that I didn't support her opinions. I tried to reiterate once again how I did truly stand on her side and agreed with my personal opinion that parrots wings should be unclipped unless it is physically or mentally hurting them if they are not. I AGREED with what was being said yet a mod actually came on to the thread for the sole purpose of telling me to shut my trap, and so I defended myself. Yes it was meant to be a bit rude but if your mods can't take a bit of rudeness then I'm glad to be gone and with more mature people over here.

When the PM was sent I was still in an upset mood from what had happened with the other mod and I was also rude to you as well I will admit, but never rude enough for me to get banned. I politely said I was going to leave the forum and not come back from my several bad experiences voicing my opinion on there and would have left it like so.

If by "like-minded people" you mean actual adults that act like it, then yes. I am here with them and we say hello!(: Thanks for clearing some stuff up here.

Mare
03-07-2016, 03:25 AM
Savannah, I've been in your shoes but it was on AA and I know it's no fun. I think that if we all try harder to make it work and understand, it can work. Heat of the moment response is nothing new to me but with age I've softened and have found more of a balance :). I'm not saying you're wrong..God knows, I have the same force of belief. To be happier inside, though..let it go.

Macaw Lover
03-07-2016, 03:02 PM
As you can see, that place has some issues so just blow it off since it is a pattern they seem to have.

I just question if they go around to other forums, see if people are members there and then if they see that you are, they ban you. Their ways or the highway and you better do only how they do things, no room for someone to learn different things.

Doublete
03-07-2016, 09:26 PM
Ok I started to respond earlier during my lunch and major commotion broke loose.

I vehemently disagree.
I am a member of all 3 forums. All 3 treat me the same, welcoming, friendly, and as part of the community. And they do not target you just because you are a member elsewhere. You only place a target on your back if you argue without seeing everyone's point of view, act catty or create unnecessary drama, or start things that are just going to be problems.

PlaxMacaws
03-07-2016, 10:51 PM
Ok I started to respond earlier during my lunch and major commotion broke loose.

I vehemently disagree.
I am a member of all 3 forums. All 3 treat me the same, welcoming, friendly, and as part of the community. And they do not target you just because you are a member elsewhere. You only place a target on your back if you argue without seeing everyone's point of view, act catty or create unnecessary drama, or start things that are just going to be problems.It would be nice if that were true. I can't personally speak about AA, since I've never been a member there. But I assure you, there was no argumentative dialog from me within the threads at PF that could have prompted their ban action against me. In fact, I hadn't been active there in some time when they banned me. It was a complete surprise at my next log on attempt. And our other staff members were banned from there under similar circumstances.

I had started a thread about bird safety at PF quite a while before my ban (and way before PP was even planned). But even then, it was me who was attacked by two PF members who crashed and hijacked my thread while I was sleeping during the dark hours of an early morning. A PF staff member closed my thread before I awakened. Because the matter was so upsetting to me (due to the topic's importance), I left PF with no plan of ever returning. But one of the moderators there convinced me that I should give it a second chance. That came with an agreement that I would post a thread about pet safety which would become a permanent sticky. Below is a screenshot of that thread's original post:

[Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks]

I was not banned until many months later after PP had been up and running for a while. And then our staff at PP began falling like flies at PF. All I will say further is that you can draw your own conclusions.

Mare
03-08-2016, 03:04 AM
Doublete, I have to disagree. PF was the very first forum I became a member of and we had no issues with each other, I didn't visit it very often but I would pop in once in awhile..I never had any problem being there. Once I became a member here at PP, all was well and then I start reading from other PP members about them being banned from PF. I thought..wow!, that doesn't sound right :( and I got to wondering if maybe I was banned, too. Sure enough, I went to check in and I find a big 'ol "Adios Amigos"!

I just remembered their reasoning for banning me! They accused me of sucking members from their forum to come here to PP! Totally false accusation but you know what..?..I couldn't be happier. Things happen for a reason :)

Doublete
03-08-2016, 03:43 AM
Well. I hope to continue to be a member of any and all forums as long as I practice my own sense of good community.

I can't speak for why any mods would ban anyone so I'll speak for myself. :)

lolsavannahh
03-08-2016, 03:54 AM
Everyone has their reasons! I agree, I shouldn't get heated I just wanted to see if other people got the same response there but I got a little carried away. I'm sorry guys!

Allee
03-08-2016, 03:42 PM
Tony, this is a very compelling conversation on several levels.

I find the discussion on parrot forums in general to be far more interesting than I first expected. I watched social networks evolve from their conception to the present time from a distance. I never had a personal use for them except to search for information. I think it's safe to say the road from then to now has been an extremely bumpy one for most, rather than a few of the various individual forums that have popped up like weeds after a spring rain. In the beginning there were some pretty ugly places out there and some have become even uglier. Each forum and their operators have an agenda of some sort. One thing all forums have in common is, membership is never mandatory.

About eight years ago, my family adopted a horribly abused male Solomon Island Eclectus, he was under a veterinarian's care for the eight months we fought for him. The damage was done, his organs failed slowly, his necropsy report sited long term starvation as the major cause of death. At the time I had him, I was sadly unaware of the number or variety of forums out there, I'm sure many, if not all would have been very welcoming and supportive to me. I am therefore forever grateful to all parrot forums, I think they provide a wonderful network of resources. I'm sure if I researched them I would find some I would consider to be useless and some impeccable and that would still be only an opinion based on a personal set of experiences.

Forum Foundries owns many forums for financial gain, that's public information and I've never seen them try to hide the fact. They have never asked me to do anything other than moderate and that is on a volunteer basis, If they can provide a community for parrot lovers to communicate and find answers free of charge in the process of running a business for financial gain, all I can say is, Thank You!

Allee
03-08-2016, 03:51 PM
Tony
I am aware I have already overstayed my justifiably warm welcome (I understand) but I feel several of the issues you addressed directly to me deserve a respectful response.

I fully appreciate your views on photos that may indirectly lead to a single precious parrot's death. We all have our personal hot buttons, when I was a new moderator I was incensed by every photo of that nature. I have since adopted a more open minded viewpoint, a viewpoint that is not colored in any way by the owners of PF. First, assuming most parrot owners that join a forum (not all owners join) do so to enrich the life or lives of their birds. Purchasing or adopting parrots is widely legal, unfortunately so is idiocy. I have seen the graphic photos, I have read the heart wrenching stories, never without empathy for the bird and owner. Still, of the vast number of people who bring home a new parrot, I believe it's quite a reach to think an owner would on entering his abode whistle for the dogs, call the kitties, or various other species then deliberately set Polly on the floor to get acquainted with his or her furry new flock mates, all because the owner happened to glance at a warm fuzzy photo where one person or another got by with it at least long enough to take the photo. Maybe I'm naïve but I don't think the majority of the population is that easily led. I know when I go in search of information, I find several opinions and choose the one that works best for me. Like it or not, people freely choose to live with avians and other species, some do it successfully and in harmony. No matter how impeccable or how strong a forum is, no forum has the right or ability to police the masses even if we wanted to.

Delicate sensitivities is not usually an effective trait for a forum moderator. I am happy to work with six other active moderators on our forum, if one of us is cranky, out of sorts or just plain ornery, the cooler heads preside in the decision making process. I prefer diplomacy and tolerance over monarchy and a single biased opinion. It's nice to have the option of recusing myself when I have a personal issue with someone or some topic. Many of us put in long hours on our various fave forums, we are not infallible, we are not always right, we can only strive to continue to learn and improve. If we become callous in the process, I hope it is never directed toward the avians but only the owners, if at all.

I learned to care for parrots, from relatives, friends, one veterinarian I worked beside for a couple of years and another who was kind enough to help guide me through a dark journey with a very ill parrot, one precious bird who died because of one man's stupidity and unimaginable cruelty. They were all excellent teachers and my current flock benefits from the things they taught me every day. ParrotForums taught me to pamper my birds to the point of ridiculous and cherish every single second. Moderators are human too, no matter what forum they volunteer for.

Thanks for listening, I enjoyed visiting your fine forum. My obligations lie with my family, furred and feathered loves and my favorite forum. I do hope you will welcome me back in the event that PF fires me for long absences or for joining other forums.

bill-e
03-08-2016, 05:18 PM
I'm actually pretty disappointed with this thread as it seems to advocate bashing of another forum and instill a one sided bias into users who up until now were happy over there.

Our rules here on PP should not stop providing guidance as to our behaviour simply because ParrotForums.com doesnt qualify as a user under the rules. There are lots of folks spending lots of their free time performing the difficult job of moderating over there and if you've personally had an issue with it, it's between you and they and not every person who happens upon this thread.

This being said from a person who has very few posts over there so I can neither confirm nor deny the allegations but after 26 years participating in group electronic communication, I have always done my bickering in private because I feel that the issue is between me and the other person and group and not for general and widespread consumption.

Just my 2 cents....don't ban me ;)

PlaxMacaws
03-08-2016, 06:09 PM
I'm actually pretty disappointed with this thread as it seems to advocate bashing of another forum and instill a one sided bias into users who up until now were happy over there.

Our rules here on PP should not stop providing guidance as to our behaviour simply because ParrotForums.com doesnt qualify as a user under the rules. There are lots of folks spending lots of their free time performing the difficult job of moderating over there and if you've personally had an issue with it, it's between you and they and not every person who happens upon this thread.

This being said from a person who has very few posts over there so I can neither confirm nor deny the allegations but after 26 years participating in group electronic communication, I have always done my bickering in private because I feel that the issue is between me and the other person and group and not for general and widespread consumption.

Just my 2 cents....don't ban me ;)You won't be banned, Bill. You are entitled to your opinion :)

spiritbird
03-08-2016, 06:19 PM
That is just what I was going to write. At least on PP in this thread you will not be banned. I can honesty say that is not true on other forums and we all know which ones they are. They do not tolerate any negative feedback.

PlaxMacaws
03-08-2016, 07:49 PM
Tony
I am aware I have already overstayed my justifiably warm welcome (I understand) but I feel several of the issues you addressed directly to me deserve a respectful response.Thank you, Allee. As far as I'm concerned you have not overstayed at all. I told you that you are welcome here. And I mean that.


I fully appreciate your views on photos that may indirectly lead to a single precious parrot's death.Indirect causality is still causality. And collectively, it's far more than a single parrot's death. And even worse, the phenomenon is a progressive thing; it never ends.


We all have our personal hot buttons, when I was a new moderator I was incensed by every photo of that nature. I have since adopted a more open minded viewpoint, a viewpoint that is not colored in any way by the owners of PF.Many folks don't realize when their opinions are being influenced by those they regularly associate with. I have absolutely no doubts that the moderator staff members at PF hold certain opinions which have been influenced by one another on a peer-to-peer level, and as well by an overall consensus among the entire staff. Often, such in-common views are likely to stem from hard-set opinions held by those with senior authority among a group - it's a simple element of social dynamics and human nature. No one wants to be the 'odd man out'. But perhaps an even more compelling factor in the direction that group opinions may take is the very policy laid out by those in charge at top levels in the given company or operation. So I think it's a safe bet that the policies and expectations put forth by the owners/administrators of PF are a huge underlying factor. Not only in the rules, but as well in the collective opinion of the forum staff there. In any company, whether most workers are volunteering or on the payroll, there is usually a willingness on their part to accord with in-place administrative policy. It usually cannot be avoided since that's how we humans are inclined.


I have seen the graphic photos, I have read the heart wrenching stories, never without empathy for the bird and owner. Still, of the vast number of people who bring home a new parrot, I believe it's quite a reach to think an owner would on entering his abode whistle for the dogs, call the kitties, or various other species then deliberately set Polly on the floor to get acquainted with his or her furry new flock mates, all because the owner happened to glance at a warm fuzzy photo where one person or another got by with it at least long enough to take the photo.That's not it at all! Instead, it begins with a pet owner who is either unaware of the predator pet attack risks, or who simply wishes to believe that his or her pets are compassionate and caring souls beyond their natural instincts and proclivities. That is, they wish to believe that their pets are extra special and trustworthy family members. Now on the surface there's nothing wrong with that. We all would like to feel that way, I'm sure. However, because of this preferred view such folks tend to grant freedoms among their pets which they probably should not. It often works out for a while and their pets of dissimilar species interact in pleasant and amusing ways. The owners become so pleased that they want to share the amicable interactions their pets are engaging in. The camera or video device comes out and the image(s) or footage gets posted on social media. The pet owner finds that the published materials are a social hit. The effort results in many comments of admiration and plenty of 'likes' and a good deal of sharing. Other pet owners on the social network are impressed with the desirability of the content, and certainly with the ensuing group approval and popularity that it renders. So they think to themselves, "I have a camera/video device, and I have a pet bird and a cat... if that person can do this, why can't I?" So they do. And so do many others who view the originally published materials, as well as subsequent similar materials from other pet owners stemming therefrom. This cycle occurs many times over and spreads exponentially. It should as well be noted that once published, these materials are permanently accessible on the Internet, meaning they will be viewed over and over virtually forever. So a published photo or video of this type lives on indefinitely to suggest/encourage more pet owners to stage similar shareable scenes utilizing their own pets. That's precisely why each piece of shared 'predator pet prey pet' intermingling content holds the potential to maim and kill many innocent and adored small animals over the course of time. And so sadly, that is what's occurring in our Internet-connected world. Again, if PP's decision to never publish such content results in just one bird's life being spared, it will be worth every effort to adhere to that decision. Please consider how many birds lives would be spared if all companion bird forum websites maintained (and enforced) a similar bird protection policy. It's both logical and compassionate to hold the view that pet bird safety should always come first. Pretending that this matter is not an issue or that forum management teams could not have a significant impact in reduction of the tragedy will not change the truth that they actually could greatly impact for the better. But only if they chose to do so.


Maybe I'm naïve but I don't think the majority of the population is that easily led.Allee - have a look at the enormously rampant number of 'dog with bird', 'cat with bird', and 'dog or cat with other small animal' videos living on YouTube and other media sharing websites. There's an astronomical number of them; they are a hugely popular phenomenon! The incessant creation of this type of video tends to perpetuate itself. And that's true for two reason: 1) The videos *are* indeed cute... and simply put, people like cute! 2) People on social networks like to be popular... and friendly 'predator pet with prey pet' photos and videos are a guaranteed hit for them. So, either knowingly or unknowingly, the folks who share these materials are not only placing their own pets in serious jeopardy, they are placing the pets owned by many others in jeopardy as well through enticement. Sadly, many companion birds and other small animals who are now alive will suffer brutal ends stemming from their owners wishing and deciding to enhance their popularity on social media sites by staging and sharing such videos of their own pets, simply because others have done it before them, and because it's so easy to do. In my opinion, there is no excuse for placing one's online popularity above the health and safety of a feathered or furry family member. Period!


I know when I go in search of information, I find several opinions and choose the one that works best for me. Like it or not, people freely choose to live with avians and other species, some do it successfully and in harmony. No matter how impeccable or how strong a forum is, no forum has the right or ability to police the masses even if we wanted to.It's not a matter of "policing the masses" ... it's a matter of not contributing to an existing engine of catastrophe. We at Precisely Parrots are not telling people what to do. That would never work. Instead, we are simply not engaging in perpetuation of the problem by not providing another vehicle by which additional encouragement might be dispersed. Can't you see the difference?


Delicate sensitivities is not usually an effective trait for a forum moderator.Why not? Perhaps it should be. It would stand to save many innocent lives.


Moderators are human too, no matter what forum they volunteer for.In my view, that's no excuse for going with the flow when the flow is so unnecessarily detrimental to so many innocent lives.


Thanks for listening, I enjoyed visiting your fine forum. My obligations lie with my family, furred and feathered loves and my favorite forum. I do hope you will welcome me back in the event that PF fires me for long absences or for joining other forums.You are welcome here, Allee. Thank you for your civil attitude.

One final point. Please note the names of the PF moderator staff members who thanked my pet safety statement sticky thread post on PF in 2013. Some of them are still moderators there and now they disagree with me on the issue. Is that hypocrisy? Have they been influenced by Forum Foundry management expectations? You be the judge.

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lolsavannahh
03-09-2016, 02:11 AM
I never meant for this forum to be taken as me directly bashing PF, but instead I was honestly being a whiney baby over here and wanted to complain about how my post was misread by so many people that it lead to my ban, and I wanted to know if other people also had a reaction like that over there.. but I never meant that PF sucks or anything I just didn't agree with how things went down ( which I'm sure is only because of the shoes I was put in XD )

This is getting a bit far and I guess I wanted to just say that if there's a way you could deactivate this thread I would like that.. If not I guess here is just me saying that what's done is done and we shouldn't argue ( I am the biggest offender here don't get me wrong ). Thank you guys for saying your opinions as well but Bill is right, this got out of hand. Thank you Plax, and I appreciate your willingness for a conversation as such to continue but if you could, please close this thread.. Thank you(:

plax
03-09-2016, 02:39 AM
Sure Savannah. Since you've made the request, I will close the thread.