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spiritbird
01-06-2016, 09:44 PM
Don't know who is in charge of this organization but they do not want us to post videos of "captive birds".

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Casper's 2nd best friend
01-07-2016, 02:47 PM
Actually, they have a very good point:

While possibly entertaining to some, videos of captive parrots, parakeets, cockatoos, and others inadvertently promote the myth that birds are domesticated pets. The reality is that birds are wild, intelligent animals with emotional and physical needs that cannot be met in captivity.

I have had concern that my posting pics of Casper on Flickr might be giving the wrong message to people. Do you think I should take them down or at least put a "health" warning on the pics?

PlaxMacaws
01-07-2016, 04:23 PM
National Bird Day was actually January 5. I suspect that the message expressed by this organization concerning their position against humans keeping birds captive has been inciting some controversy here and there. In my view, the diminishing natural habitats of these magnificent avian creatures (largely due to human commercialism) have made it difficult -to impossible- for many species to thrive in the wilderness any longer. In various cases, one of the last options seems to thus be human-implemented captive perpetuation of species. On the other hand, the perpetuation of avian species by humans is also a process that's typically driven by profit. And unfortunately, as we all know, that reality results in a huge number of abandoned, neglected or otherwise abused birds around the globe. I am therefore convinced that both views have flaws in terms of the solutions they propose :(

Casper's 2nd best friend
01-07-2016, 06:36 PM
Tony the thread is asking whether we should or shouldn't promote the ownership of birds by posting media on the internet, what is your opinion on that?

PlaxMacaws
01-07-2016, 08:30 PM
Tony the thread is asking whether we should or shouldn't promote the ownership of birds by posting media on the internet, what is your opinion on that?It's hard for me to respond with a definitive answer to your question, Jean-Pierre. I would think it should depend upon what the proportion of diminishment among avian species in nature happens to be that is directly attributable to the pet trade capture element, and what the proportion of diminishment happens to be that is due to other factors. In any event, I feel that importation of birds should be illegal and strictly enforced in all countries. If the market for wild caught birds were virtually eliminated everywhere, that should at least have some positive effect on the problem. I will agree that photos and videos inspire folks to become interested in acquiring new birds. And that's arguably a bad thing when it comes to importation and breeding. But conversely, it's a good thing when it comes to finding homes for the countless birds who populate rescue facilities. There's just no easy, or perhaps correct answer (as I see it).

spiritbird
01-07-2016, 09:44 PM
I really do not think media is the culprit here. It is the bird mills that breed mostly small birds for the pet stores. Most especially Kaytee.

Casper's 2nd best friend
01-08-2016, 09:15 AM
It is a recorded fact that media does encourage the public. For example a simple thing like Canadian singer/songwriter Leonard Cohen putting a line in a song called Master Song "And he gave her a German Shepherd to walk with a collar of leather and nails" boosted the sales of German Shepherd dogs which were then abandoned by women who never wanted or could not cope with such a gift from their macho boyfriends.
People do see pictures and videos of cute birds and then think it would be nice to "own" one so I am part of the problem, as are the bird mills and the people in the bird's natural habitat who can make a few dollars by "harvesting" wild birds. So the problem is two-fold: people want birds as pets when they see pictures of cute birds or their friends have one and other people want to make money. Just making prohibitions is not going to stop that happening, it needs a change of public opinion which can only be achieved by education and peer pressure.

Macaw Lover
01-08-2016, 02:22 PM
Born Free USA and Avian Welfare Coalition are both AR groups. They don't want us to have ANY animals, none, zilch and that is who is behind this, it is right out there written under Take Action

So, they get people to THINK it is wrong to post videos because they don't want people to see that we have a relationship with any animal we OWN and are loved, and well cared for because that goes against everything they are trying to brain wash us into thinking that we should not own ANY animal. Makes it easier to get laws passed like they are doing if we all shut up and allow them to do this to us.

PlaxMacaws
01-08-2016, 02:55 PM
Jean-Pierre: I agree with you concerning the role played by suggestion. Public or personal exposure to the pleasant aspects of keeping companion birds can be quite compelling. Each day people see how intelligent, adorable, and attractive exotic birds can be and thus develop the whim to acquire one (or several) for themselves. But I also believe that reducing or eliminating said exposures through education (and otherwise) would impose a horrible injustice upon the already-captive and suffering birds who desperately need homes. It would be essential that the education you speak of include encouragement to adopt homeless birds as well. I'm not sure that our governments would be prone to create laws that would only allow birds from rescue facilities to be obtained by the public. And it would be tragic if people could not legally rehome their cherished avian companions with friends or family when the need arises. And much worse, if prohibition were enacted making it illegal to keep our beloved feathered ones, what would happen to them? If homeless birds at certified rescue facilities were the only avian pets that could be acquired, the situation might improve. But only if the possession of currently possessed pet birds were grandfathered into law. However, even if something like that could be done -and I can't see many legislative bodies crafting this sort of regulation- the diminishment of natural habitat would continue to pose a significant threat to wild birds. I don't see a perfect answer. And I'm terrified of where the legal restriction might go.

I should also note that the 'power of suggestion through shared media' phenomenon is a big contributor to the endlessly perpetual predator-to-prey pet intermingling instances as well :(

kendrafitz
01-09-2016, 12:33 PM
It's a catch 22 in my opinion.

They should never have become pets in the first place. But now that they are and are rehomed so often, they need people to take care of them.

I agree that videos showing all the the good stuff does make animal lovers want to bring a parrot home. But it's all the hard stuff that causes them to be rehomed. Most people don't become aware of the hard stuff until they are dealing with it.

In my opinion, parrots are just very difficult for humans to share a home with. For the very reasons we want to share a home with them. They are highly intelligent, sensitive, loving creatures. But this leads to problems bc they need lots and lots of attention since they belong in a flock in the wild with lots of stumulation. If they don't get enough stimulation from us it leads to the toddler like behavior (tantrums, screaming, etc) and even worse plucking/mutalating.

It is such a sad situation as a whole. Something I was completely unaware if until Rosie came into my life. It was only through the forums and reading of others experiences that I began to understand the problem. :(

Casper's 2nd best friend
01-09-2016, 12:42 PM
I happened upon this last night which seems to put my point of view quite well:
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When Casper made it plain that Margaret was his new best friend and we decided to give him a home we had no idea what we were letting ourselves in for, but once it became clear we just knuckled down and tried to make his life as pleasant as we can. Sometimes it is difficult but we do our best.
I worry about the future though because it is highly likely that he will outlive us and have to get used to another home.
Thanks Mum, all this worry just because you wanted to be like your poncy friends.

kendrafitz
01-09-2016, 04:02 PM
I've read this before and still agree wholeheartedly with it. I have read people criticizing it for being too negative. I disagree. I'd rather the honest truth than some fairy tale that leads to more homeless parrots.

I tell everyone that looks at Rosie and me with stars in their eyes the same thing. DON'T EVER GET A PARROT. You may think it looks so fun and cute but there are tons of times I feel like banging my head against the wall. Yes, Rosie loves me. But she loves me so much that she cannot stand me out of her sight. Or talking to my husband. Or eating dinner at the table with my family. It's not all pixie dust and hearts. Better to be honest and help keep some poor parrot from being rehomed bc it didn't work out.

Macaw Lover
01-10-2016, 12:18 AM
I've read this before and still agree wholeheartedly with it. I have read people criticizing it for being too negative. I disagree. I'd rather the honest truth than some fairy tale that leads to more homeless parrots.

I tell everyone that looks at Rosie and me with stars in their eyes the same thing. DON'T EVER GET A PARROT. You may think it looks so fun and cute but there are tons of times I feel like banging my head against the wall. Yes, Rosie loves me. But she loves me so much that she cannot stand me out of her sight. Or talking to my husband. Or eating dinner at the table with my family. It's not all pixie dust and hearts. Better to be honest and help keep some poor parrot from being rehomed bc it didn't work out.

I have never had a problem where any of my 3 are so dependent on me and have problems that you have described. Granted, Macaws are not for everyone but they are for a lot.

Seeing all the destruction of the native habitats, less and less birds are surviving in their native homelands and keeping them as pets might end up being the only way they will not become extinct. I sure don't want to see that happen, and hope others will see that too.

spiritbird
01-10-2016, 12:45 AM
Kendra you would need a professional bird behaviorist to deal with the over bonding. That is if you have the energy to go that direction.

kendrafitz
01-10-2016, 01:45 AM
Renee - agreed on all points. Macaws are wonderful creatures and bring joy to so many people. Please understand, I love Rosie just as much as she loves me. At this stage, I can't imagine my life without her. However, when people are interested in acquiring a parrot after seeing how bonded she is to me, I tell them all of the hardships of having her. Not because I don't love Rosie, but because I read all of the sad stories of birds being rehomed. People see the good things, never hear the bad and then become overwhelmed. It seems way too often the bird is left homeless and brokenhearted due to this.

Dianne - you are probably spot on. My problem is that the entire family would need to participate in behavior modification. One scream and everyone here is in an uproar. So for the time being, I am where I am.

plax
01-10-2016, 03:11 AM
Macaws are wonderful creatures and bring joy to so many people. Please understand, I love Rosie just as much as she loves me. At this stage, I can't imagine my life without her. However, when people are interested in acquiring a parrot after seeing how bonded she is to me, I tell them all of the hardships of having her. Not because I don't love Rosie, but because I read all of the sad stories of birds being rehomed. People see the good things, never hear the bad and then become overwhelmed. It seems way too often the bird is left homeless and brokenhearted due to this.Kendra: Maybe you should not only tell people about all of the bad things that come with parrot ownership, as you do. Perhaps you should as well append a strong message as an endnote that emphasizes when any person or family decides to acquire a parrot -despite your justified warnings against doing so- they should only consider adopting the bird from a rescue facility. And be sure to include a heartfelt explanation as to why this should happen. Please remember that deterring folks from parrot acquisition also contributes to worse odds for homeless birds to find real homes with loving families :(

kendrafitz
01-10-2016, 01:04 PM
Tony - excellent point. I will absolutely do that.

Macaw Lover
01-10-2016, 03:01 PM
If people are told they should only adopt a bird, would that not be an even worse scenario when they end up with a bird that has issues, don't have the knowledge how to handle things and once again, a bird is in a terrible situation??? No, it is not.

Granted, there are great rescues that do their homework with the placements but on the other hand, there are others out there that are not good. Pushing the concept of 'only get a rescue' is not the end all answer. Education is a much better place to start with. If people learn before hand what is involved, yes, people will back away and say they don't want the mess, noise, screaming, responsibility, etc what we need are the people who will jump in with both feet and enjoy sharing their life with a bird and both will benefit.

If breeding is stopped, which is the aim of these animal rights idiots, it won't be long before humans will not have the opportunity to enrich their lives with birds because man has destroyed natural habitats so they are dying out in the wild and then you add in all the laws those same idiots are pushing for laws to get passed to stop us from owning the loves of our lives. Is that what you want? I sure don't. I don't want the government to come onto my property, taking my family from me because some other people don't want us to own animals and become vegans and this is what is happening, right under our noses because these ar groups are brainwashing people into thinking it is just so wrong to own animals.

Casper's 2nd best friend
01-10-2016, 03:22 PM
You don't own your family - they are just... family, whether they are human or other animal. If we don't talk about ownership then hopefully people will realise that parrots are not a commodity to be bought and sold.

plax
01-10-2016, 04:36 PM
Renee': You, yourself, mention that there are good rescues who perform their due diligence and screen/investigate potential adoptive parents. As for the terrible rescue facilities, as I see it the birds under custody of those may be hopelessly condemned if they remain unadopted. Rescue management people who don't have enough concern to make sure an adoptive home is safe and qualified are not likely to enrich the lives much for the birds in their possession, or at least as much as those birds deserve while living in a setting with limited stimulation and care. And actually, certain situations existing in such "rescue" facilities may constitute abusive treatment in themselves. Even if there's no clear abusive treatment going on at a less than capable facility, who's to say that the owner and staff folks have the appropriate knowledge to adequately deal with the birds in their custody? The bottom line is this... the more that folks are deterred from adopting from rescue facilities, the lower the pool of potential adoptive homes for birds in dire need becomes. I don't believe that we should contribute to the lowering of that pool... because there are folks out there who can provide potentially good homes for birds in need. But there are also damn few of them :(. Neither you nor I can know how many avian "rescue" facilities exist that amount to torturous confinement bins, or which potential adoptive bird parents will turn out to be inadequate. But further reduction of the life enrichment chance pool for the birds who desperately need a second chance is not the answer!


Education is a much better place to start with. If people learn before hand what is involved, yes, people will back away and say they don't want the mess, noise, screaming, responsibility, etc what we need are the people who will jump in with both feet and enjoy sharing their life with a bird and both will benefit.That's precisely why I told Kendra that she should press both points.

Macaw Lover
01-10-2016, 04:38 PM
But I did BUY them, paid for with green cash so they are BOUGHT and so I do own them.

I know so many people go around also saying they 'adopted' when if fact they paid money for something, which really in legal terms, is a commodity. When you truly 'adopt', no money is paid for that item. Don't even get me started on the word 'rescue' and it's over use.

Now would I ever sell them??? Never say never, but I hope a day like that would never come because I can not even imagine doing that, how they would feel and what that would end up doing to me.

kendrafitz
01-10-2016, 07:56 PM
It is really such a hard subject. With no absolute solution. All points made are truly valid.