Avian Obesity

[spiritbird]

Linnies have a very high metabolism and have a tendency towards obesity if you feed them fatty foods. The other day my girl friend was here for the day and she has a GCC. Over the curse of the visit she was watching Kobe and Tango. They ate off and on for 3.5 hours. That was a lot of food in a little crop. This made me wonder if other birds eat a lot like mine do.

I know some species are prone to obesity so like us they need exercise and healthy foods, not so many seeds. Species at a higher risk of developing obesity are Budgerigars, Amazons, Galah cockatoos and lorikeets and cockatiels. I read that Linnies are too. Obesity does not depend solely on the food eaten, but also depends greatly on the energetic needs. Like a bird that flies outside such as Amigo does has a higher energy need for flying. Breeding birds need more food than if they were not breeding. Birds living in colder climates also have a higher energy need. So how do we avoid our captive parrots living indoors from being "fat birds"? Pellets are not the answer because they contain more fat and protein than our relatively inactive birds need. Sunflower seeds are a whopping 50% fat and the oils added to the pellets (sometimes palm and coconut oils) may predispose to atherosclerosis (fat deposits in arteries). It is important to discuss this with your avian vet to formulate a life plan for your bird. This would include healthy foods, low fat treats and lots of exercise. Our birds are totally depended on us to maintain their health and that is no small task for a bird guardian.

Do you measure the dry foods you give your birds? If you do how do you know how much to give them? I pretty much give a dry mix of pellets and goldenfeast blends with ground eggs shells sprinkled on top. The dry foods are 1 tbsp. each along with 1 tbsp. pellets. Then they get fresh chop most days. Linnies do not like to fly that much as they prefer to climb. I set up a small climbing area over the cage and they like to spend time there. I admit to not having a scale to weigh my birds but the girls will weigh them with my grooming trips to the vets office

[spiritbird]

Is anyone there??

[94lt1]

My birds will all eat and stuff their crops to the point that it seems like they're going to rupture..even my little Cinnamon gc eats like there's no tomorrow... It's been 80° down here...and we just had a cold snap..so though they're inside. They're eating more. And putting on a lot of feathers.

Our birds get ¼ seed ¼ pellets and the other half is nuts and veggies and fruit..now some birds eat differently.. Rain eats some of all, starburst eats the fruit and some pellets, Monte eats the nuts and string beans...Seminole doesn't seem to eat other than the pellets. But we offer it for all.

I also wonder if our thoughts on bird diets are wrong like on our diets .for years ...fats were bad..now they're good..certain ones..there's so much that I think is speculation on these little guys and gals..

[Casper's 2nd best friend]

Casper was overweight when he came to us, due to being on an all sunflower seed diet with no exercise. He is now about forty grams lighter at just over 400 although he has been making rather a pig of himself raiding the bowl of nuts over Christmas so it will be interesting to see how he is when he goes on the scales on Friday.
We were advised by the vet that too much protein: nuts, seeds, fish, banana was not good for him.

[PlaxMacaws]

Is anyone there??Sorry Dianne... I've just been sidetracked.

The only one of my guys who isn't ultra finicky is Salsa. He'll stuff himself massively when given the chance. Of late, Zaf is by far the most finicky of my four. But Jack and Maynard are quite picky as well. So Sals is the only one I have to really worry about getting too much food. Whereas, conversely, I'm very concerned about Zaf not eating enough food.

I sometimes wonder about all of the speculation that Brandon mentions, too. But I think it's a very good idea to follow some guidelines that seem to make health sense!

Thanks for the great thread, Dianne :)

[spiritbird]

I worry about cholesterol levels in birds. If high it leads to a stroke. Vets usually do not test the level in young birds but I suggest others may want to know the levels. Especially if you got the bird from another home. my gf has a 15 year old GCC and this bird was sick for the first time last week when she had a bird sitter. Sitter called to let my friend know this bird was hiding under the newspaper. Off to the vet. Vet drew blood work, including cholesterol and sure enough level was sky high. Bird was on a seed diet mostly as this was all she would eat. Told my friend what to do. This bird no longer wants to fly which compounds the problem.

A high seed diet for a bird is, over time, a silent killer.

- - - Updated - -

[kendrafitz]

Rosie doesn't really eat very much, of anything. 3/4 of her food ends up on the floor. I actually worry that she is too thin. Her diet is mostly the Bird Paradise Blend, which is dried veggies, fruits, pellets and nuts. Once in a while I spot what may be a pumpkin seed. She is really seed free. I don't measure her food. I fill her tree bowl in the morning and add if she needs more. At most once a day. She does get lots of nuts thrown in as bribe treats, several times a day. She has food in her cage but she won't touch it. She will eat pine nuts though, so I generally put a handful of those or another type of nut in her cage bowl before I go out.

I have NEVER seen her crop full or expanded since she has stopped hand feeding. She is just not a big eater. There are many times her stomach is growling and I have to fight with her to get her off me and onto her tree so she can hopefully eat something.

[94lt1]

Remember I had the a weight issue with Monte..getting him to flap and work it off was hard..

Let me share some of my personal experience and tie it in and see what you guys think..

I once weighed nearly 500 lbs..blah blah..we all know that..now by working out and changing what and how i ate..I lost down to 265..had to get bigger to help absorb left over fat and not have a hanging skin issue..I did that..but the little bit of fat on my lower abs to show my definition.. Was hard..I wound up cutting my calories further and further while lifting heavy and doing hiit cardio to burn it down..

Well..my body said.. We must be in a famine..and I'm not getting the calories I need..so I'm going to hang on to that fat..and make more and feed off of all this muscle. (In all these movies where you see built guys and food is hard to come by, try not to laugh..cause with out food..your body will consume itself.)

So..I was losing weight and getting fatter..and I damaged my thyroid.

I had to slowly pick up my caloric intake and lift heavy to rebuild that muscle. Now let me tie this into birds..

Birds that aren't flighted..don't develop their flight muscles which I would think would be like our glutes and legs..major muscle groups that take a lot of nutrition to fire...

For Monte..we could see an overall change in his physique from flapping..he built more muscle..actually got heavier first..then he lost weight.

My wife's darling little sun conure..starburst ..aka chow hound..had a people food problem..and was so tubby that he would breath very hard after just a few moments of flapping...we had to put him on pellets and make him lose weight before we could flap him for heart reasons..

My point being..captive birds don't develop large very important muscles unless they're flighted..and I'm not even going into if we should or shouldn't flight train birds...that's not my point here..

It's like if you sat on your butt all the time and didn't ever learn to walk.. Or never learn to run..and then ate a diet that a physically active person eats..you're gonna get fat...that's my point ..if you can read through my thoughts..

If the bird flew..and now doesn't...I'd say you need to clean up its diet as best you can .....that's like me..i was really active..hurt my knee..ate like i did before and then even more..and woke up one day breaking the bed...literally..

I also completely agree...an all seed diet is a slow death sentence for birds..but I'm meaning like what foods they can't have and stuff like that...I've personally seen parrots eat avacado in the wild..I've seen a parrot eat a raw onion...I thought the sulfer would've killed it...all sorts of stuff..

[spiritbird]

Really appreciate you sharing and insights here Brandon. If I could do it over again I would strive to be an avian nutritionist.

For Rosie - have you tried making a chop with grains, nuts and beans? Have you tried making a special place for her in the kitchen so she can share in your mealtimes? Oh, add pasta in the chop too. Would she like spoon feeding?

[plax]

Yes Brandon, thanks for sharing the metabolic/dietary/exercise experiences of Monty and yourself.

By the way, my understanding is that the chemical in avocados that is toxic for birds (persin) leaches into the fruit portions from the skin and the pit where it is highly concentrated. I've read that the levels of persin may actually be very low to nonexistent in the avocado fruit. But I would definitely avoid allowing your bird(s) to consume any part of the avocado in any form! Below are some descriptions from Internet articles as to why.


Avian and Avocado Toxicity
According to Lee, birds such as canaries, parakeets, cockatiels and large parrots are extremely susceptible to persin toxicity. Owners should avoid feeding their birds fresh avocado or even packaged, ready-to-serve guacamole. Symptoms of persin toxicosis in birds includes the inability to perch, respiratory distress, congestion, fluid accumulation around the bird’s heart and lungs and liver and kidney failure. If caught in time, your bird can receive treatment for avocado poisoning; however, due to a bird’s high metabolic rate and unique anatomy (including air sacs), many birds do not survive once exposed to avocado or other dangerous poisons.

From: [Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks]



Yes, avocados are toxic to birds because the chemical persin can cause serious issues or death in birds.The avocado tree, including the bark, leaves,avocado fruits,pits, and skin, all contain a chemical called Persin. The chemical is known to cause a severe toxic reaction in birds because ingestion results in myocardial necrosis, which is essentially the death of the heart muscle cells. A very minimal amount such as 1 gram will result in agitation in a budgie- sized bird, and an amount such as 9 grams or more will cause death within 2 days. It's unknown why Persin is so toxic to birds, but it's recommended that bird owners avoid avocados at all costs. and even take care to select perches , and any wood the bird comes in contact with, that do not contain any wood or products from the avocado tree.

From: [Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks]


And here's the rundown on onion toxicity for birds: [Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks]

[kendrafitz]

Dianne - It sounds ridiculous, but Rosie has sensory issues. She always has. She cannot stand soft food. I made chop for her a few times and it was a no go. The exception is pasta with sauce. I am guessing from her UMMMM noises that she finds it so yummy that she will overlook the ickiness of how it feels on her beak. ;)

[kendrafitz]

Tony - I read somewhere that parrots will eat avocado in the WILD. The important difference is that in the wild they eat clay which counteracts the toxicity I guess. Since we don't have clay pits in our homes, no avocado for our birds.

[Casper's 2nd best friend]

Kendra if Rosie likes crunchy have you tried her on Harrisons pellets? They look brown and boring (no artificial colors) but Casper took to them like a duck to water when he was on cold turkey from his seed habit.

[kendrafitz]

I believe I have given them to her but will get some and try. :)

She does eat the pellets in her food, just not a lot. She mostly enjoys crushing her food between her beak and the food bowl and of course tossing food on the ground.

I really think she is just so darn focused on me that she would rather not eat and watch or be with me. She was jyst sitting with me and her belly rumbled. So we argued and I finally got her to her tree with the promise of a "special almond" (yogurt covered almond) She begrudgingly took it but when I started to walk away she tossed it. I am sitting near her and she is half heartedly eating and complaining while staring at me. I am trying to ignore her as this generally turns into screaming. Sigh...

[Casper's 2nd best friend]

Does she get to feed with the rest of her flock? We find we have to shut Casper in his cage at meal times to stop him from trying to monopolise the plates we are eating from. Fortunately his cage is in the room where we eat so he does eat while we do.
We are trying to get the coffee stains out of the carpet from a little incident when he rather fancied the last mince pie on the plate on the coffee table. Scrubbed the carpet and steam cleaned, then used a paste of baking soda which was allowed to dry out then vacuumed off. Next came the white wine vinegar mixed one part to two of water. Need to see it in daylight to see if any stages need to be repeated. :(

[kendrafitz]

Oh no!! I hope the stain comes out!!

She is maybe 15 feet from our table when we eat. But she has begun screaming bc she doesn't want me to sit and talk with everyone. So I have started just eating upstairs with her in my room or standing in the kichen while eating. She isn't really interested in eating herself. Most times when I share with her she throws it to the dogs. Dinner is just ridiculous here.

[spiritbird]

You will have to get a Rosie high chair for your dining table. That way you can give her a bite every once in a while. She must be curious about what is going in your mouth.

OMG my birds must eat all day long. If they are not eating they are recovering from a full crop. I just got more cooking bird food because they love it. They adore Kung Fu Yum from msbs. I guess birds in the wild spend the better part of their day foraging for food.

Crazy Corn Bird Food [Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks] Anyone else feeding it?

[94lt1]

Sorry about the long post guys/gals..I get Long winded on the strangest things some time.

[spiritbird]

No need to be sorry for a long post. We need more of them.

[Mare]

Wow! Nice thread :). If I worry about any one of my birds over eating, it would be Sassy. She's kind of a neurotic and does everything full tilt. Rosie sounds like quite the pill, Kendra! Just from my own experience with my guys.. I couldn't have them full time in our living room area, they were too much focused on me and therefore super loud when not getting their way, I think there was just too much stimulation for them to relax.

Amigo, being my first bird, had his cage in the living room area full time. He became very aggressive towards anyone but me in this/his territory and was moved to a back room, now the bird room, when anyone but me was around. He was free flighted at this time, as well. This in when I brought Sassy into the mix, I didn't like Amigo being alone back there with no one else around. He hates her, would love to kill her but enjoys her company from across the room, anyways.

Ok, where were we.. diet. I've noticed that when one bird is eating, they all start eating. I feed them fresh, morning and evening and they always have a bowl of seed and pellets available. According to the vet, they are all at good weight.

[kendrafitz]

Brandon - I enjoyed your post.

Mare - I think you are right on. She is way too focused on me. She goes in her cage when I go out and relaxes/sleeps, or whatever it is she does. I have tried putting her in her cage and going out of eyesight, telling her I have to go to work and just doing other things in the house. But once she hears me, screaming ensues. I have also put her on her stand in my room, closed the door and gone downstairs (with the tv on for her). I usually do that with my mil, bc she is a nervous wreck with Rosie. Screaming on and off until I get her. What is really boils down to is my life is much easier when Jef and the kids are out. Then she will yell once or twice for me and then move on to play with a toy or throw her food around. If anyone is home, she knows I need to keep her quiet.

I'm not really super worried about her weight. The vet said she is a small GW and if she ever goes over 1200, she will be too heavy. She is usually somewhere around 1050 - 1100. So I know she is ok. But she just feels so darned skinny and boney to me. It will be funny if she ever changes her mind about eating and I have to worry about her being too heavy. It actually wouldn't surprise me in the least...expect the unexpected. ;)