Need more advice with a rescue bird(s)!

[lolsavannahh]

Hey all, I post here a lot now, and as you may know I help out at a pet store/bird rescue near me, and I just really want to hold and love on all of these birds, but I can't seem to figure out how to get them to trust me even after all my experience here. Some are just so untrusting towards humans and it makes me sad:( ANYWAYS I have a few stories and stuff for anyone who would like to read and maybe help out.



This one is about a macaw(s) I am interested in hanging out with:
1) So we had a greenwing ( GW ) and a Blue and Gold ( B&G ) we had been boarding for a while and after a month or two of the owner not paying the price and never coming in, we decided to put them up for adoption. Almost as soon as we did so we sold the GW to someone I HATE HATE HATE and he is actually back now. This guy comes and buys every single one of our macaws one by one and then brings them back, looking absolutely horrified and in terrible feather and untrusting to humans again. He has taken 6 macaws and brought them back within a month, this past one was probably gone for 2 weeks, but is back.

The guy gets impatient and won't work with the *ABUSED* and *NEGLECTED* birds properly, so just messes them up more and then brings them back to us and of course we take them back, but then the fricken owner of our store sells him a new one every time and I hate that too, but anyways this time he took the B&G I had been working with, Skully, and is probably going to abuse him and neglect him and I am just so upset I physically cried earlier when I found out. Skully and I were on great terms and I almost got to the point of asking him to step up ( These are rescues and all, so I have to take things very slowly to ensure the bond is good and for my own safety ). I know he will be back, but he was already in TERRIBLE feather from stress of being away from his "owner" for that long while he was boarding, and since he was separated from his friend. I have a picture up somewhere on this site too.

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Here's a picture of Skully before he left, already in bad feather, and he will be worse when he gets back.

ANYWAYS, How do I go about bonding again with these birds after their terrible experience? Is there something I should watch out for? How do I help them become more used to being in the rescue again and not be stressed. The GW he brought back is in such bad condition his feathers are all puffed up as if he is raising them, but he can't put them down. He was only with this guy for 2 weeks and he looks like he was thrown off a cliff.

2) There is a hybrid macaw who was also from that guy, Rudy is his name, and he is wonderful and beautiful. The guy adopted him and brought him back over a year ago, and won't get him back again ( Thank god ) because he is very aggressive and bit the crap out of him. I was able to pet his beak a lot today and even reach in his cage and put a new perch in without him trying to get at me ( like he usually does when you get anywhere near him in his cage ). This poor bird hasn't gotten out of his cage in over a year I'm sure because of his cage aggression and overall past with being a butt sometimes.

I really think something happened to him with humans to make him like this, because even some of our worst cases the birds won't attack like he does.. It's almost as if he was wild caught.

Now here's my questions:
How can I get to the point of being able to actually pet him with the 80% assurance of him not biting me roughly? I know he may still try to bite even if we are great friends and all, but I want to be over 50% sure before I start to mess with his huge beak LOL
Was me being able to get in his cage without him lunging at me that huge of a deal? Or was he just confused why a human was in his cage and interacting with him? Nobody EVER does with him because of how he is.



Here are some questions about smaller birds:
There's a Senegal I work with, he's 6 years old and has been with us all 6 of those years. He was given to us as a baby, and we kinda just gave him a cage and everyone forgot about him. Nobody will adopt him because of his cage aggression also. I have actually gotten him out of his cage several times and pet him a lot. He has kinda chosen me as his human, but here's the catch.
I went on vacation and couldn't volunteer for a while and when I came back, and talked and tried to play with him, he bit the fire out of me! He has bitten like that before, but that was before we bonded and before I even got him out the first time. Has he forgotten me? Does he think I have forgotten him and am leaving so he's mad at me?

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I used to get him out a lot and the other day I opened the cage door and he climbed out all by himself but when I tried to get him back in the cage he was very aggressive towards me and bit me until I bled. I endured it for the sake of "not letting him win" but I was really sad about it all!

What can I do to regain his trust? I am the only human he has ever trusted, and the only person he has ever stepped up on... EVER. We had a real trust but now it's gone again...

[Macaw Lover]

I feel the biggest thing is that you have to get over your fear of being bit. Any time you work with birds there is a chance of being bitten but you don't wait around fearing those bites otherwise you will not be able to handle most of them. You need it get to a place where you are not letting the idea of being bitten stop you from loving on a bird.

I also don't believe in the baloney of not reacting to a bite. Heck, they can hurt and if a bird thinks that one didn't do anything, they will make sure the next one will! Of coarse, there are the birds who need to know that it did hurt and really don't want to hurt your. If Jody bites too hard she actually says "Ow, hurt' Guess she has heard that one a few times LOL

Kalea will react if I say 'Ow' by first stopping and then turning away because she knows she has hurt me and is sorry.

Then there is Donovan. His bites are hard and fast and usually gets thrown back into his cage, lights off door closed if he does it when I am taking him from his condo (we don't have cages around here, not with the cost of Stainless Steel). Now if he is on me and he strikes out and hits with the tip of that break, he gets hollered at, given the evil eye, told that hurt and a lot of times he will reach his beak out to sort of give me a Macaw kiss with by touching his beak to my face. That guy has a lot of force and hurts and has drawn blood when striking with that beak.

Donovan has a history of biting, I was aware of it before I committed myself to taking him and have never regretted it. Bites happen but every day when he cuddles under my neck or climbs onto my chest and forearm (he is big and needs the room from both) and lays that head down which is my clue for cuddle time, that all than more makes up for the times I have gotten bitten.

Focus on the love, not the bites and become the bird person all these little guys need you to be - for them.

[Macaw Lover]

Is this a pet shop who might take in birds to resell? If that is the case, the owner really needs to evaluate who he/she is allowing to buy birds from them. I can understand if that is the scenario and this is a business and all but he needs to draw the line somewhere.

What really irks me is all the people who go around saying they 'rescued' a bird when in reality they bought and/or re-homed a bird. The term 'rescue' should be only used when any animal needs EMERGENCY medical care to save it's life, not when it is placed in another home.

Kashmir Csaky came up with a better term that she wrote on the AFA site and as she says, everyone is over using the term 'rescue' and that is just not appropriate in every case. 'Survivor' is more true to what some birds have gone through and a much better word. Heck, if I died after posting this and someone said they then 'rescued' my babies I would haunt them from the grave. They would need a home, not be 'rescued'.

[Macaw Lover]

Skully just needs a few baths and he will look and feel a lot better. Just another thing you can do for him when he comes back.

[PlaxMacaws]

While it's easy to tell someone to focus on the positive rather than the potential for being bitten, I know that some of us possess natural fears which may not be so easily overcome. However, I also believe that if you are able to divert your main focus to your goal of gaining and sustaining a bird's trust, it can be quite helpful. But bites hurt and often feel like huge setbacks. One problem in attempting to focus on only 'the positive' is that in order to not think about something that you're aware of which truly concerns you, you almost have to keep that something in mind to avoid dwelling upon it. As one example of attempting to avoid much thought concerning a subject you have awareness about, consider the following. If I tell you not to think about a pink elephant, I have introduced the idea of a pink elephant to you. So you will have to use that very awareness of the introduced idea to keep your thoughts about it at a minimum. In other words, you have to maintain awareness of what you don't want to think about (to a point) in order to keep from thinking about it. The same goes for potentially being bitten by a bird. My point is that it will likely always be on your mind to some degree. And for some of us, such thoughts are more difficult to suppress than others.

I think in many cases the easiest approach to deal with a bird who may be aggressively defensive against the human hand is to take very slow steps in an ultimate effort at establishing some trust in the mind of the bird. Once you are able to see some positive progress in this regard, it will become far easier to avoid thoughts of getting bitten by the bird. That's because as the bird develops trust in you, you in turn develop trust in the bird. This mutual comfort between bird and human can thus emerge together. A key factor, though, is that such mutual comfort can take quite a bit of time to develop in some cases. If a bird has been repeatedly abused, or has otherwise regressed in its progress toward trusting and interacting with people, it is usually necessary to take some steps backward in an effort to regain said bird's trust. And this regression process may cycle many times before the bird establishes a relatively permanent comfort level with a particular person. Even then, the bird will likely distrust certain other individuals. Some people may never be able to interact well with such a bird.

Sadly, there will often be some level of heartbreak when attempting to look after the best interests of these amazing feathered souls. They are sensitive and complex beings. Their experiences mold them into the personalities they ultimately become. And sometimes the outcome turns tragic :'(

[Macaw Lover]

That is why I also say to wear a sweat shirt and possibly an ace bandage along with really soft gloves on, to protect yourself if there is a bite and then be too leery in trying again to work with a bird. A lot of it can be mind over matter but start out lessening the chance of getting a bite and then being fearful of future ones.

The biggest asset to have is the 'Wanna' factor. You have to want to do something. You have to want to help a bird. You have to want to love a bird. If you have that, and it sounds like Savannah does, these (sweat shirt, gloves) are just additional tools to help reach the goal.

[lolsavannahh]

Thank you all for the advice and I really appreciate it all!!!


@macawlover

Although I understand what you're saying, this bird is very aggressive. To the point where even our toughest bravest workers will not work with him because of how mean he is. I have had my wrist broken by a macaw in the past and honestly no matter what I do I will be scared of being bitten again. I can't really just "reach in there and hope for the best" because of my attitude and his. He is our most aggressive macaw and I feel we have made a big step in him letting me touch his beak and all, but I don't feel stepping up is the next step with us. I really do value your advice and I think it is good advice for another bird and I, but this one is kinda different.

And I don't understand what you mean by hating the word "rescue"... If the bird is in a place where is needs a new home because of specific needs of the owner or that it is not getting the love or care it needs, you're not buying it or adopting it, you're rescuing it from this bad situation. If you were to die and your birds were at your house where nobody could or would take care of them, and someone took them off your family's hands, then they would be rescuing them from that.

I also really like that ace bandage Idea, I think I will use that when the time comes!!!(:

@PlacMacaws

Like mentioned above, my wrist was once broken by a macaw so I will probably have to take this slower than usual, especially with how aggressive he is. I do have an overwhelming fear of this happening again, because it was very painful, and not to long ago. The macaw who did bite me is now bonded with me almost 100%, but I don't know, something about Rudy is different. I honestly think he was either wild caught or his parents were with the way he acts sometimes.

Thank you for your advice and good words, and I hope to make a lot of progress with him, but in the situation I am in, I can't really take him to a quiet place away from the other birds or even out of the cage because of his aggression at this point. I wish I could "borrow" him and take him home so I can work with him there LOL but that's definately out of the question haha. I wish to one day own a Macaw, and maybe it'll be Rudy or Skully, but for now, I cannot give the appropriate care for one.

[Macaw Lover]

I am reading this after I wrote on the other thread.

I would change my advice a little then. Still go over there with the intention of seeing how Skully is adjusting and talk to this guy. Get him talking. Ask him how much experience he has with birds, especially ones that have baggage and difficult to deal with. Your goal is to get this guy to realize the birds at the shop are not the ones for newcomers, they need experienced homes who know how to handle them. Get him to question himself why he wants a large bird in his life in the first place and then maybe you can steer him towards something else, even if it is not an animal.

The word 'rescue' started being used for dogs and cats in a shelter that a date to be euthanatized if they were not adopted. People liked using that word to create a good feel for themselves that they saved a life, which is a good thing, but then you had all these 'rescues' popping up for all animals and the Animal Rights people who are getting laws passed left and right have been using that against us for their own benefit. AR groups do not want us to own animals. Any animal. They plan for us to become vegans. Now if someone wants only plants in their diet that is their choice in my opinion but I like chicken, fish, beef, pork too.

So to help push all these bills through these AR idiots use our own words against us when everyone is always claiming they 'rescued' such and such animal and the politicians buy into it too and pass bills that are chipping away at our rights to own animals.

Are you aware of the ESA laws that are getting passed? The US created the laws in the first place to make it illegal for smuggled animals to enter our country and shut down our pet trade here. The AR groups use propaganda leading people to believe there are so many smuggled animals here. There is not. These laws went into effect in the '90's so you don't see many smuggled animals around at this point, a greater portion were born/hatched right here in good 'ol America but the AR groups don't put that to the forefront, and they won't do that because that will not help their cause.

Every time an animal gets listed to the ESA list, the AR groups are jumping for joy because they know the long range affects it has. Most people hear that another species has been added but when they read it and it discuses that you cannot sell outside of the particular state most people think, 'oh that won't affect me because I don't breed'. Like heck it can't affect you. Do you live in a state that automatically makes it illegal to own any animal listed on the ESA list? These states are referred to as 'Unsafe" because there is no grandfathering in of any animals, it is illegal period to own and subject to confiscation. You cannot even have feathers of a bird on that list because that is illegal. You are violating the state law if you are just WATCHING someone else's bird/animal if you are in an UNSAFE state. Most people don't even know how their state handles the ESA laws and if law authorities have the right to enter your property right now and confiscate your babies.

Wanna bet these AR groups know that? They sure are not pushing that fact. Remember, they don't want us to OWN ANY animal. People just see that they cannot buy/sell Animal X outside their state and think nothing of it. Big deal they think, but IT IS a big deal, especially if they live in a state that is Unsafe. What happens when their state changes policies and they are then Unsafe? That can happen too.

Everyone needs to check to see how their state handles the ESA laws and hope like heck their state doesn't change things and your heart belongs to a species on that list. People need to get their heads out of the sand and fight these AR groups before we loose all the animals.

One way to help fight against these AR jerks is to join and support AFA. Us bird owners need to come together and stop these laws.

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[Casper's 2nd best friend]

Don't be too surprised about a normally passive bird putting up a fight when you want it to go back in its cage when it has other ideas. :th_wink: