Pellets????

[Minamommy]

Ok so someone on Facebook was saying that pellets are bad really bad and killing parrots. He said everyone in the UK knows this and that's why birds are plucking and underweight. He said to feed a good seed diet and fruits and veggies. Let's weigh in on this. I feed Mina Harrison's pellets. At this point that is mostly what she eats. In the am she will sift through the My Safe Bird Store blend that has lots of goodies in it no seeds no peanuts. She will eat honeydew watermelon pear and Apple. No veggies. Yes she is a snoot. I have tried everything. She only gets watermelon after being outside in the heat so she doesn't dehydrate.
So what do you feel about pellets vs seeds what do your birds eat?


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[PlaxMacaws]

This seems to be a hot-button issue of late. My personal opinion is that it's not reasonable to claim or believe that pellets are harmful - if for no other reason than anyone making such a claim would appear to be making a blanket statement about all pellets. There are many brands and varieties of bird pellets available and each either contains different base ingredients or different proportions of the same or similar base ingredients. The questions then become: What ingredient, or group of ingredients, could possibly cause physical harm to pet psittacine birds? And why? A preliminary question should probably be: Which pellet brand (or brands) have been linked to health issues in pet birds and where did the conclusions originate?

I feed a sizable proportion of pellets to my Macaws. And since a couple of my guys refuse to eat any pellets other than Zupreem Natural (which by many aren't considered the best bird pellets available - they contain higher levels of sugar than some of the others), that's what they get. Despite all of that, Zupreem Natural pellets still contain some good nutrition and thus serve as part of a total diet. Including some nuts and even some seeds is beneficial to most species... and certainly getting them to consume as many vegetables as possible is a must! Zaf unfortunately hates vegetables :(

Before I jump on a no-pellets bandwagon, I would like to see the evidence behind the claims that pellets are harmful and understand the underlying science. And as stated above, learning which of the pellet brands are believed to cause problems will be essential information.

[Minamommy]

I agree with you Tony. I can't see any scientific evidence that pellets are bad. More to the point there is evidence that they are balanced and good for them if you feed other things with them. I have ordered this Tidymix from the UK just to see what all the fuss is about. They seem to be raving about it over there. I don't plan to give her much but in the morning when she gets her snack mix I will throw some in.


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[2birds]

What is tidymix?

[Minamommy]

Tidymix is a seed mix from the UK that everyone seems to rave about over there. So far I haven't had any luck getting my hands on any. I have to say though once I checked it out with a good picture of it I am not impressed now. It looks like cheap seed mix! I found another I like better but I only allow her 1/2 table spoon a day to forage for.


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[Animalman2046]

Kim I also agree totally 100% with Tony. If you listen to everyone person who comes along with a opinion on bird care you will drive yourself crazy. Everyone has a opinion and not all of them are good ones. I have a CBC crimson bellied conure now and before that I had 2 African Greys and I have and still feed them a pellet mixture daily. I use Roudy bush and Zupreem Naturals. Ziggy my CBC loves them and eats them very well. I also give him Volkmans seed as a treat a couple times a week mixed in with the pellets. I also give him Bountiful Harvest and alternate it with a conure blend mix from MSBS which he loves and eats very well. He gets lots of fresh fruits and veggies also daily which he loves and eats well. I would say not to get to concerned about everything you read. These pellets are made by Avian vets and companies. There is no real fool proof diet for our birds anymore than there is a fool proof diet for us humans. We just do the best we can with what we have and a lot of it depends on what our feathered friends will eat and like. Good luck.

[2birds]

I agree, I've already driven myself crazy with this and come back. My conclusion is pellets as a staple because I need something that's decent for them that is dry. I mix it up on the pellets just in case any are lacking in one thing or another. Veggies and a small amount of fruit daily with seeds and nuts as treats. Or, I'll mix a small amount of seed nut mix with the pellets. I think that if you vary what you give them often they should receive pretty good nutrition

[plax]

I think that if you vary what you give them often they should receive pretty good nutrition.That, and perhaps not become as bored with the same ol' thing. Finicky birds may thus be more inclined to eat more consistently each day :)

[Minamommy]

I agree 100% with that. Tony it does really appear Mina grows board with most foods except pine nuts [emoji6]


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[Robyn]

I feed Riley 2-3 teaspoons sprouts I then fill a seperate smaller dish halfway with pellets (a mix of Zupreem natural and fruit blend because the fruit blend is what the breeder weaned her on) I barely cover the pellets with a layer of seed, I can usually still see the pellets through the seeds. I then add 2 pinches of Higgins sunburts dried leafy greens and add a nutriberry or two on top. I will also be adding bean cuisine in the mix soon and am working on getting her to eat fruits and veggies. In the 3weeks I've had her she's only been given millet once as it took her 2 weeks to eat it so I'm waiting a little longer before I give her another.

[coltfire]

Well they kill eckies they destroy the kidneys and liver . I would never feed pellets to my birds

[plax]

Well they kill eckies they destroy the kidneys and liver . I would never feed pellets to my birdsSteve: specifically, which pellets kill Eckies? And which specific ingredients ruin their liver and kidneys? There are many brands of pellets, each containing different base ingredients or different proportions of the same or similar base ingredients. I'd like to learn which of those specific ingredients have been attributed to death in any species of parrot. And I would really need to see some evidence on claims that birds have died from consuming pellets... preferably including a scientific study or two. It's way too much of a blanket statement to claim that all brands of pellets kill birds. Also, which species of parrots are supposedly dying from pellet consumption. Is it only Eckies? I know that Eckies require a special diet. Has this been reported as somehow being a factor?

I've had Jack and Maynard (large Macaws) for 33 years and a significant proportion of their diet has been pelleted - never the colored fruit-loopy looking ones, though. Both Jack and Maynard seem relatively strong and healthy to me. Of course they get other foods on a daily basis as well, but pellets have seemingly not produced any detectable adverse effects for them. In addition to my own positive experience with pellets, I simply can't think of any logical reason that might explain why nutritional matter that has been formed into a nugget shape could be lethal for birds. As such, I think it's reasonable to demand some evidence as well as a logical explanation for the alleged path to bird death from pellet consumption.

Question: How might pellets kill our parrots?

[Minamommy]

The only way I could think that they could kill our parrots would be if too much vitamin A got in. Cheap pellets may have a lot of chemicals in them, may cause irritation plucking of feathers and so on... Could also cause organ damage. I can't see how a high quality pellet like Harrison's or even Zupreem though I don't see them as high quality. Like Harrison's. I just don't see it happening with a good pellet.


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[plax]

The only way I could think that they could kill our parrots would be if too much vitamin A got in. Cheap pellets may have a lot of chemicals in them, may cause irritation plucking of feathers and so on... Could also cause organ damage. I can't see how a high quality pellet like Harrison's or even Zupreem though I don't see them as high quality. Like Harrison's. I just don't see it happening with a good pellet.Any food that's overly fortified with certain substances can be dangerous to a bird's health. But a blanket statement that all pelleted bird food kills parrots -or even lowers life expectancy- is both unreasonable and illogical. And that's especially true without scientific evidence to back up the claims of danger.

I don't like the sugar levels in Zupreem pellets. But it happens to be the only brand that Jack or Maynard will have anything to do with. And one of the first ingredients listed in Harrison's Lifetime pellets is ground sunflower seeds. We all know the warnings about feeding too many of those. But even still, most board certified avian veterinarians recommend pellets and support those brands as part of a healthy parrot's diet. Could there be some commonality about all pellets that's ultimately toxic to our birds? I suppose it's possible. But my feeling is that it's highly unlikely. Both Jack and Maynard are wild caught birds... they've lived with me for 33 years and I have no way to know how old either of them were when captured. I would guess they are at least in their 40s or 50s. Zupreem Natural pellets have been one of their significant dietary components for a long while here. While there is always room for improvement to a bird's diet, I don't think Zupreem pellets are killing these guys. So again, I ask for evidence?

[Minamommy]

Tony I was answering your question or trying to. "How might pellets kill our parrots?" :). I totally agree there can be no blanket statement. Just like most people turn their nose up at a seed only diet with some fruit veggies thrown in. But it does sometimes work for birds. So at the end of it all I agree with you. But as for scientific facts. Not sure we are going to get many. I just think it's not tested. They care more how to make it palatable I suspect. Then start adding in the good vitamins and such. As for Zupreem, Mina loves the fruit flavored stuff and gets it in her snack mix.


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[plax]

Tony I was answering your question or trying to. "How might pellets kill our parrots?" :).Kim, I understand this and I appreciate your response very much. But my point is that we're trying to come up with "maybes" to a rampantly spreading claim that's apparently not supported by available scientific evidence. I just want readers of this thread to be aware that it's probably not wise to condemn all pellets based upon an Internet rumor alone.


I totally agree there can be no blanket statement. Just like most people turn their nose up at a seed only diet with some fruit veggies thrown in. But it does sometimes work for birds.Yes, but there is a scientific basis for that thinking. Many avian vets agree that such a diet can reduce the life expectancy of a bird because of the limited nutrients factor as well as the relatively high fat content of certain seeds. A great deal of fatty liver death has been correlated with an all-seed or mostly-seed diet.


So at the end of it all I agree with you. But as for scientific facts. Not sure we are going to get many. I just think it's not tested.I'm not even aware of an abundance of unexplained early bird death that's been reported by folks who believe a diet including pellets were the causative agent. All I've seen so far are the claims.


They care more how to make it palatable I suspect. Then start adding in the good vitamins and such. As for Zupreem, Mina loves the fruit flavored stuff and gets it in her snack mix.That's fairly true - perhaps with the exception of Harrison's (lots of birds seem to hate it). Most pellet producers realize that their products probably need to be enjoyed by birds to render a profit.

Ultimately, Kim, I'm trying to inspire some critical thinking here as well as to avoid feeding the rumor.

[Robyn]

I think with ekkies it's because of their complicated diet that pellets can do damage I have read in other forums that ekkies should be fed VERY little pellets because of it. I however have done no research on ekkies as I have no desire to own one however I have heard from owners of them that they should be fed a diet closer to a lori/lorikeet.

[plax]

I think with ekkies it's because of their complicated diet that pellets can do damage I have read in other forums that ekkies should be fed VERY little pellets because of it. I however have done no research on ekkies as I have no desire to own one however I have heard from owners of them that they should be fed a diet closer to a lori/lorikeet.Yes, Robyn. The special diet required by Eckies may be a factor. Thanks for highlighting this! But the rumor has been spreading that pellets in general are harmful to all parrots. I've seen no scientific evidence that supports this assertion and I think it's important to warn against jumping on the bandwagon unless and until such evidence emerges.

And by the way, I certainly don't blame anyone with Eckies for playing it safe by avoiding pellets!

[froggij]

I know it's a bit late on this one, but I was just reading an article on bird nutrition that actually discussed this and was about to ask everyone's take on it but I see someone already beat me to a thread about it. They didn't blanket statement it too much (a little, yes), just noted that most pellets contain artificial dyes that can cause kidney failure and other problems if the dyes are ingested and stored for too long. They described an ideal organic diet, and gave examples of things to steer clear of, including most types of pellets:


Avoid pellets as much as possible: (Other than, at best, Harrison's which vets commonly recommend and sell - and even then pellets should only be part of a healthy diet, not an exclusive diet).


Most pellets contain chemicals such as artificial coloring / flavoring / preservatives, etc . Parrots may be able to tolerate these for a year or two, but once these chemicals build up in the "system" to a certain degree, symptoms such as feather plucking, aggression and, in some species, toe tapping and wing flipping, aggression may appear.

Pellets may cause kidney problems, particularly in birds that don't drink much. Also, there is s enough anecdotal and circumstantial evidence that pellets may cause major health problems for mutations, the reason of which is not quite known.

*Please note: If your bird's diet does include pellets, please be aware of the fact that overly feeding citrus fruits (including oranges) to your birds can lead to "Iron Overload Disease."


They did note that there are some good kinds, and they also said earlier in the article that even some "fortified" seed diets have artificial colorings and additives that can have similar effects.

So what do you guys think?

Whole Article: [Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks]

[Casper's 2nd best friend]

My opinion, based on my limited knowledge is that variety of diet is the most important thing, just like humans. Claims that stuff in a packet is a complete diet is misleading. You could probably survive on it though.
So Casper gets pasta in the morning and a spoon of porridge if we are having that. Also another bowl with fresh fruit and veggies (the veggies rarely get eaten but we keep trying). Then in the evening he gets the remains of the pasta removed and a bowl of Harrisons. Harrisons was recommended by our vet as Casper was a bit poorly when he came to us having been fed just sunflower seeds for many years. The previous owners thinking was that anything else was a waste of money because he would leaves some. Yeh, well, if you gave me a diet of chocolate every day I would love it but it wouldn't be good for me!
Anyway, to give him some variety we offered Casper some Zupreme coloured pellets to try this week. They were not well received which is strange because he had no problems accepting a daily dish of neutral coloured complete diet pellets when he first came here. Not sure if it is the colouring, the flavour, or the fact that they are not so easy to pick up. We'll keep trying for as long as the packet lasts, mixing them with the Harrisons.
He also gets a bit of what we are having for dinner if it is suitable, he will eat cooked veggies and loves a bit of fish. We haven't offered him chicken as that doesn't seem right somehow - like encouraging canabalism. If we are have spaghetti bolognese then the plates get the full pre-dishwasher treatment with his little tongue coming out the side of his beak to lick the plates clean.
Do feel free to criticise, we are learning as we go here, at the moment Casper is in very good health, moulting without being too aggresive, asking to have his neck preened and then complaining if we get it wrong. His cuttlefish gets a good bashing when he is moulting, I suppose he wants the calcium.

[plax]

Jen: That's an interesting excerpt. But I think some missing specifics are an important factor. Aside from artificial colors -which should always be presumed as dangerous- I don't see any of the mentioned chemicals/preservatives specifically named, nor the brands of the pelleted products that contain them. That's a bit too general for me. So yes, I as well feel that the article presents in a blanket manner (to an extent).

Jean-Pierre: You should try 100% whole grain pasta to see if Casper enjoys it. It's far more nutritious and significantly less prone to convert to body/organ fat deposits. It's easy to tell that Casper has a great life with you... and that's really nice :). If I were you, though, I would rethink the colored pellets. Not only do they include known harmful dye substances, they as well tend to contain higher levels of sugar. I know that Amazons are particularly prone toward fatty liver disease... so that's something you may want to consider.

[theratlady]

I don't have a pet bird yet, but thought I would put my two cents in all the same. xP

I have been a fancy rat owner for a long time, and the issue of pellets vs mixes is a commonly debated subject among rat owners as well.

The people in the 'mixes' camp say that mixes are better because they're similar to the way a rat would eat in the wild.

The people in the 'pellets' camp (myself included) say that pellets are better because rats are smart little buggers who know that you're going to refill their bowl everyday. So with a mix, they'll come along and pick out their favorite bits, and leave the rest, meaning they aren't getting the full nutrition out of their food.

I have four healthy boys and have owned nearly a dozen rats in my life, and all of them have been fed pellets with no health issues related to diet. For this reason, I will probably feed my bird a pellet feed once I get one, unless someone comes out with real scientific proof that pellets are harmful to birds.

[Casper's 2nd best friend]

Hi Plax
I think Casper has already made his own decision on the coloured pellets - "smarter than the average... parrot" to misquote Yogi Bear.
Pasta is not so easy due to Margaret's policy of not having any human foods with gluten in the house. She feels really guilty if she has accidentally made me ill.
He does enjoy stealing any remaining gluten free pasta from our plates when we have finished our meals.