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Turquoise
04-07-2014, 07:36 AM
I found this on the "Bird Tricks" site and thought it was a really good read for us folks on forums to think about when thinking about commenting on threads or posts sometimes. I can't say I agree with everything this author writes, but she does bring up some good points that I have seen members on other forums fall into at times. I'm sure I myself have been guilty of writing something that I should have thought out better and the OP may have been hurt by. I do try to think about what I write and how it can be perceived before I post. And I will continue to make every effort to be a more considerate poster.

By Patty (Last Name Unknown) [Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks]
I have kept parrots since the 80s. Back then, unless you were lucky enough to have a chance meeting with another bird lover, you were on your own. The only information available was at the library or in generic, manual style books on sale at pet stores, many of which were written by breeders. Any questions raised about captive parrot behavior would cause snickering – “They are birds, so they will fly and stuff.” Thank you for your words of wisdom.

Sometime in the late 90s, I was made aware that there was an “avian community” out there in the cyber world. Still, it took me another several years to go out there looking for it. I found one forum, a particular favorite, where I forged long friendships. It was an amazing experience to find that there were so many others out there just like me.

One of the first things I noticed was that these people were not playing. They regarded parrot ownership as a privilege, not a right, and if someone came on board who had a “too relaxed” outlook about their parrot’s care, they were straightened out – sometimes harshly.

I appreciated their stance on parrot care, but I thought the methods were wrong. It is that “too relaxed” person that most needs their help and driving them away with condescension accomplishes nothing. Their bird will pay the biggest price.

Eventually this forum brought in a very bird-wise man as a moderator. However, the benefits of his vast experience were lost beneath his sarcasm and belittling comments to people who were new to bird ownership and were still finding their way. To him they were idiots and he all but told them so. During that time, the site lost some of their most dedicated followers, myself included. This is not an uncommon scenario in the avian community. Pretty much everywhere I have been has at least one person who needs a nap.

I entered the avian community to share my love of birds. I wanted to be able to share stories and photos, ideas and strategies, with people who shared my passion. After so many years on my own, I was starved to do so. I felt like I’d hit the jackpot.



Over the years, I have noticed that the avian community seems to be divided into three factions that can adequately describe parrot owners – at one time or another, I have been a member of all of them.

There is the new bird owner (group 1) who is on an amazing journey of learning and absorbs information like a sponge. Every new fact discovered is like a treasure and there is a feeling of being propelled in a new direction in life. (Let’s face it, after some of the things we learn about our birds, there is no turning back.)

Then there is the next level, a natural step in the evolution of a bird owner (group 2). The need to learn still burns at the core of them, but the need to share is also powerful. When they realize that the rest of the world does not participate in our enthusiasm about birds they are compelled to connect with others that are like minded. They find the biggest community exists online: in forums, on Facebook.

Finally, the long term bird owner has travelled the path of the former and has finally landed in a place where they combine what they have learned with what they have experienced personally (group 3). It is a place where there is confidence enough to modify what they have learned to suit their home and their bird. They also understand that there is a place where over-cautiousness can become smothering and affect their bird’s quality of life.

Unfortunately, as natural as the development of these 3 groups is, they don’t always intermingle well and sometimes heated debates can get out of hand.

Group 2 has active participation in the avian community and are reminded every day through posted stories and photos how badly things can go when people don’t do the right things. Their insistence that everyone do what needs to be done is well-founded, and their passion can serve as a reminder for everyone to be careful.

Group 3, with their long term relationship with their bird, know how they interact with their personal and individual environment. Events that are perfectly normal and safe in their house might appear risky to others looking in who aren’t familiar with the bird or the environment. Group 3 understands that birds that live in bubbles are not going to be happy.

These two mind-sets clash frequently when people from group 2 see laxness and people from group 3 see inflexibility. Sometimes people from group 1 post photos that show their birds in unsafe surroundings and while it is the duty of others with more experience to point out safety issues, it is just as much a duty to do it in an unintimidating way.



Something came up the other day that prompted this posting. I shared a short video posted by a member of our group on Facebook of her greater sulphur crested cockatoo standing on the toilet seat “going potty” which met with a great deal of criticism.

Some of the attacks were unwarranted:

Some commented that it was unsafe for her bird to be there and especially so when she flushed the toilet with her bird still on the seat. But the water level in a toilet would not overtake a sulphur crested cockatoo and you couldn’t flush a bird that large away even if it was your intention. She was obviously right there to supervise and step in as needed.

Another complaint was that toilets are unsanitary. But I wonder how many of the people who criticized the poster for exposing her bird to germs bathe their birds in their kitchen sink, an area that is many, many times more unsanitary than a toilet. The toilet in question looked quite clean to me, I would assume for the same reasons that sinks are cleaned before birds are allowed to bathe in them.

And finally the most confounding attack was from people insisting that birds are supposed to relieve themselves “wherever they want”. To this most judgmental criticism, I must remind people that birds are also supposed to live in trees. Ours don’t. While bird poop is a part of life with a bird, it is also off putting to many people – like friends and relatives who may not want to come by if they find your house unsanitary. If you are able to corral your bird’s poop, I say power to you!

Fortunately, most people were able to appreciate the most important thing about the video: happy bird, happy owner. It was that which prompted me to share it in the first place.

To avoid drama in the avian community, it will help for people to recognize what group they occupy and try to be fair with the others. The above is a perfect example of groups 2 and 3 at war.

To group 2: your passion and commitment are invaluable to giving people the knowledge they are seeking and you are out there fighting the good fight every day. Please try to deliver your messages in a non-confrontational way so as not to scare off new bird owners or alienate the experienced ones.

To group 3: your contribution is a constant reminder that life with birds is supposed to be fun and shows us the place where many strive to eventually be with their birds. Please be careful to never let complacency sneak into your routine with your birds. When posting about your experiences, please remember to give the details needed to avoid anyone jumping to conclusions.

To group 1 – you just keep doing what you’re doing – living and loving birds! Ask questions, heed warnings, and enjoy every moment with your birds.

My perspective is this: I love birds. I love people who love birds. How simple is that?

Honesty
04-18-2014, 01:05 PM
Sorry, De'Andrea, I have only just seen this :(

A great article :thanks4sharingthumb(I am not sure which category I would fall in)

Grey
04-18-2014, 01:44 PM
Fantastic article! I guess I am a group 3 member

PlaxMacaws
04-18-2014, 03:22 PM
I think the line between firmness of cautionary statements and making effort not to offend new members can require a fine balance. We certainly don't want to drive folks away... but without adequate firmness, many folks tend to ignore important advice. That's been proven time and time again!

I'm unsure just where I fall among the 3 groups mentioned. I should probably be in group 3 because I've cared for companion birds since I was quite young, and certainly because 2 of my 4 large Macaws have been with me for nearly 33 years. Yet, I seem to hold the concerns of group 2 in many cases. I feel that too often folks tend to impose great risk upon their birds. The example that comes to mind is the facilitation of physical contact between pet birds and carnivorous predatory pets that are large enough to overpower those birds. All too frequently, pet birds tragically and unnecessarily become victims of other-pet-species attacks due to pet owners opting for physical interaction among their various pets. Worse yet, pet owners are often inspired to allow and encourage such physical contact between predator and prey species with a goal of utilizing said interactions as shareable Internet content that may serve to personally popularize them on various websites. I find this a shameful excuse to endanger the dear animals who trust us to protect them. Then when these folks deny that's exactly what they're doing, and simply continue risking the lives of their birds, it bothers me at an indescribable level. As a result, I've been known to become aggressive in my comments. At best, I think it's a difficult matter to deal with :(. And it's especially hard when my hope is to promote forum participation. While I don't have all of the answers, I certainly see many of the real problems :(

Grey
04-18-2014, 06:07 PM
I feel that too often folks tend to impose great risk upon their birds. The example that comes to mind is the facilitation of physical contact between pet birds and carnivorous predatory pets that are large enough to overpower those birds. All too frequently, pet birds tragically and unnecessarily become victims of other-pet-species attacks due to pet owners opting for physical interaction among their various pets. Worse yet, pet owners are often inspired to allow and encourage such physical contact between predator and prey species with a goal of utilizing said interactions as shareable Internet content that may serve to personally popularize them on various websites. :(

There is a huge difference between directly pointing out a dangerous situation and someone who pretends to be a maven on every topic. I've had members on the other forum berate me because my birds have an outside flight covered in GAW mesh. Their stated belief was that nothing less than stainless steel was acceptable (can you imagine the cost?). They read something somewhere that made them an expert on the topic. Now, I'm no expert, but I have had companion parrots for over 30 years, bred some, hand raised many, but never lost one to metal toxicity. I do have a collection of books that I use to reference for different topics and I keep up with newer developments through AFA and PSOA publications and independent research and am willing to share what I have learned or experienced over the years. Whether a person chooses to follow the advice is up to them. I think you are the same way.

PlaxMacaws
04-18-2014, 06:54 PM
Now, I'm no expert, but I have had companion parrots for over 30 years, bred some, hand raised many, but never lost one to metal toxicity.I believe that zinc toxicity from galvanized material like GAW mesh is rare to nonexistent as far as outdoor avian enclosures. But if the coating gets to a point where it begins flaking off and the flakes happen to somehow become ingested (e.g., a bird begins picking them off of the wire or the flakes fall into its drinking water, etc.), then all bets are off. There is in fact a significant amount of zinc in the galvanized treatment used on most wire mesh. However, I think the risk to birds is slim in most cases. Many breeders and aviary maintainers use the GAW mesh for outdoor enclosures without issue.


Whether a person chooses to follow the advice is up to them.That's true enough. However, the fact that they are free to impose grave danger upon their pets (mainly for social gains) is beyond disturbing to me. They are effectively (and unnecessarily) assuming serious risk upon the lives of their pet birds, who obviously have no ability to make an informed choice on the matter. Frankly, I find such conduct egregious! I'm sure I always will. I as well find that the most I can do is try and keep all inspiration to engage in such dangerous behaviors off of this forum site, and remain willing to explain why (if/when folks are interested).

Mare
04-18-2014, 11:54 PM
Thank you for the post, De'Andrea, I enjoyed reading it and could relate to a lot of it. I'll admit to making mistakes with my birds and have learned so very much on forums. When someone is willing to explain why something you do isn't particularly good for your bird, I GET that and it's helpful to me. I've run into situations where I've had to move into defense mode because of attacks on me, it was terrible. There can be a pack mentality on larger forums, that gets out of control. This is why I will always take my job seriously as a mod. There are always better ways to get a point across than to attack.

Honesty
04-19-2014, 07:59 AM
Well said Mare :)

Debra
04-19-2014, 03:35 PM
Very well said!

Turquoise
04-23-2014, 07:23 AM
Darn internet!! I put "Likes" on all these posts and it is refusing to accommodate me. It's been going in & out of service all night looong! :(

Everyone's discussions are quite good and well put. This article does make a person think about our input and impact we as fellow forum members have on the general population of parrot owners including non members who also read our posts.

Grey
04-23-2014, 04:08 PM
One thing that I would like to add is to remember that the internet is an international community. When someone from another country posts a question, keep in mind that pelleted diets may not be available, or avian vets are unheard of, or the standards or ethics of bird keeping may not be what you are used to. Also keep in mind that English may not be a language they have been taught to write in and may be resorting to using a translator software.

plax
04-23-2014, 08:24 PM
One thing that I would like to add is to remember that the internet is an international community. When someone from another country posts a question, keep in mind that pelleted diets may not be available, or avian vets are unheard of, or the standards or ethics of bird keeping may not be what you are used to. Also keep in mind that English may not be a language they have been taught to write in and may be resorting to using a translator software.And the potential barriers that may arise in our communication efforts involving such folks, and perhaps various issues we may encounter as far as their willingness to consider our advice, may make it extra difficult (and in some cases, entirely impossible) to effectively convey proper information to them. But in my view we should still try.

Grey
04-23-2014, 09:35 PM
We definitely should try, I am not saying otherwise. But I think that in such cases we need to keep it simple and build as the conversation continues. I have seen people badly abused on another forum because of the shoot first ask questions later mentality.

plax
04-23-2014, 10:07 PM
We definitely should try, I am not saying otherwise. But I think that in such cases we need to keep it simple and build as the conversation continues. I have seen people badly abused on another forum because of the shoot first ask questions later mentality.With folks who are relatively new to the companion bird world, I tend to agree. However, with, say, a longtime staff member on a huge parrot forum site, whose material gets lots of Internet exposure and who intentionally facilitates, demonstrates, and incessantly brags about physical interaction between her medium size parrot and her house cat, all bets are off! Irrespective of the fact that simple and courteous comments will not dissuade someone like the aforementioned from endangering her bird (and many other birds through example), I'm not one who can easily give up in the face of such apparent futility. At least not without speaking my mind a time or two. I feel that too many folks give such people a pass to create lots of danger for lots of birds, and even encourage said behavior in many cases. That's simply unacceptable to me.

Grey
04-24-2014, 12:09 AM
Would that medium sized parrot be grey in color with a Russian sounding name??? I totally agree with you, I was banned from another forum for defending a foreigner who was asking a question and was attacked by a mod. Unfortunately, the young man was asking a health related question and there was no such thing as an avian vet in his country. Instead of receiving advice he got insults. In that case, the mod potentially put someone else's bird's life in jeopardy by not giving the advice the young man was looking for (it was a very simple solution).

plax
04-24-2014, 01:01 AM
Would that medium sized parrot be grey in color with a Russian sounding name???Yes. That's the bird.


I totally agree with you, I was banned from another forum for defending a foreigner who was asking a question and was attacked by a mod.Was that by chance the same forum site that we're talking about?


Unfortunately, the young man was asking a health related question and there was no such thing as an avian vet in his country. Instead of receiving advice he got insults. In that case, the mod potentially put someone else's bird's life in jeopardy by not giving the advice the young man was looking for (it was a very simple solution).It's so tragic and unnecessary when things like that occur :(. But it doesn't surprise me because I'm well familiar with the people who manage the forum site we're discussing and I'm sad to say that I've seen plenty of similar behavior there. In a nutshell, that's why Wendy and I founded PP.

Grey
04-24-2014, 02:28 AM
It is indeed ;-)

Honesty
04-29-2014, 05:00 PM
[Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks] Originally Posted by Grey [Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks] ([Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks])
Unfortunately, the young man was asking a health related question and there was no such thing as an avian vet in his country. Instead of receiving advice he got insults. In that case, the mod potentially put someone else's bird's life in jeopardy by not giving the advice the young man was looking for (it was a very simple solution).
I saw this same situation many times on the forum we are talking about :(

plax
08-18-2014, 04:28 PM
With folks who are relatively new to the companion bird world, I tend to agree. However, with, say, a longtime staff member on a huge parrot forum site, whose material gets lots of Internet exposure and who intentionally facilitates, demonstrates, and incessantly brags about physical interaction between her medium size parrot and her house cat, all bets are off! Irrespective of the fact that simple and courteous comments will not dissuade someone like the aforementioned from endangering her bird (and many other birds through example), I'm not one who can easily give up in the face of such apparent futility. At least not without speaking my mind a time or two. I feel that too many folks give such people a pass to create lots of danger for lots of birds, and even encourage said behavior in many cases. That's simply unacceptable to me.Having stated the above 4 months ago, the way that members could have avoided all of the drama which unfortunately transpired here at PP -just one month after the OP posted in this thread- would have been to fully comply with our bird protection protocol requirements. And I don't feel that was a lot to expect, especially from our staff folks. It's so sad that a mere attitude swing on the part of one individual has a potential to ignite a community breakdown in much the same way that a mere spark has a potential to ignite a firestorm in a forest :(. In any case, the potential for devastation upon a message board community is not, and should never be, a justification to slack off on rules that have been implemented to help save pets from being brutally slain through copycat ignorance :(

2birds
08-19-2014, 01:41 PM
Having stated the above 4 months ago, the way that members could have avoided all of the drama which unfortunately transpired here at PP -just one month after the OP posted in this thread- would have been to fully comply with our bird protection protocol requirements. And I don't feel that was a lot to expect, especially from our staff folks. It's so sad that a mere attitude swing on the part of one individual has a potential to ignite a community breakdown in much the same way that a mere spark has a potential to ignite a firestorm in a forest :(. In any case, the potential for devastation upon a message board community is not, and should never be, a justification to slack off on rules that have been implemented to help save pets from being brutally slain through copycat ignorance :(

I find it interesting that you likened what happened to a mere spark igniting a firestorm in a forest. I'm a firm believer that things happen for a reason, even though we may not see it at the moment and it seems devastating.
Could it be that, just like in a forest fire, old things (like attitudes) that are no long useful get burned to make way for new fresh stuff? And just like in a burned forest, things seem barren for a short time. But, slowly but surely life seems to flutter back to the forest.

plax
08-19-2014, 03:49 PM
I find it interesting that you likened what happened to a mere spark igniting a firestorm in a forest. I'm a firm believer that things happen for a reason, even though we may not see it at the moment and it seems devastating.
Could it be that, just like in a forest fire, old things (like attitudes) that are no long useful get burned to make way for new fresh stuff? And just like in a burned forest, things seem barren for a short time. But, slowly but surely life seems to flutter back to the forest.I don't know, Lori. The only vividly clear thing for me was the cause and effect element. The cause was the unnecessary attitude (incorporating a deliberate vilification of me) that emerged from the particular staff member who refused to communicate with me regarding the bird protection matter concerns. After 10 days with no response from this person came the demotion. This action in turn inspired the effect. That effect was an element of solidarity which quickly developed among the friends of said staff member. That solidarity evolved into a site abandonment stage by those friends. It was done virtually as a unit, obviously because they trusted what they were told by the ex staff person who initially copped the attitude toward me, and by my ex co-admin (who is a close friend of that ex staff person). The collective mindset that inspired the abandonment process was fairly consistent with the "pack mentality" referenced by Mare early on in this thread.

I don't know about things happening "for a reason". They probably do at times... or at least seemingly so. But I have observed many unfortunate occurrences during life which seemed to result in nothing positive thereafter. I think at times unfortunate events are simply unfortunate events, and tragedy just seems like tragedy. (Note: I'm not equating the low activity status of this message board to a tragedy; it is not a tragedy. There are far worse things in this world!)

Thanks for your thoughts on the matter, Lori :)

Mare
08-19-2014, 06:14 PM
Lori, you are RIGHT ON! I, too, am a firm believer in doors closing so's a new one can open reasoning. :). I commend you, Tony, for sticking with this, forging forward and not compromising your beliefs. Lori is right, there will come new energy to this sight, slowly but surely. There are truly knowledgable people here that can help lend a hand to folks in need of advice with their birds, folks that care and besides all that..we are a nice bunch of bananas! :th_biggrin:

plax
08-19-2014, 07:25 PM
Lori, you are RIGHT ON! I, too, am a firm believer in doors closing so's a new one can open reasoning. :). I commend you, Tony, for sticking with this, forging forward and not compromising your beliefs. Lori is right, there will come new energy to this sight, slowly but surely. There are truly knowledgable people here that can help lend a hand to folks in need of advice with their birds, folks that care and besides all that..we are a nice bunch of bananas! :th_biggrin:Thanks Mare. Old doors closing and new ones opening is indeed part of life. No argument from me on that. And I'm not going to argue with anyone on the "all occurrence happens for a reason" view... other than to say that sometimes things may occur only due to happenstance. For example, sometimes when someone dials and reaches an incorrect telephone number, it's merely because they pressed the wrong numerical key on the keypad when dialing. Such instances often end up with a "sorry, wrong number" response followed by an immediate termination of the call, and there's no apparent benefit to anyone from any of that. It's merely happenstance ;)

Mare
08-19-2014, 07:30 PM
Yes,,but just think..you may meet the love of your life! I actually know someone who has had this happen!

plax
08-19-2014, 07:45 PM
Yes,,but just think..you may meet the love of your life! I actually know someone who has had this happen!Right. But much of the time that doesn't happen and there's usually no apparent attraction between the parties making brief contact. That's why I classify it as happenstance ;)

Mare
08-19-2014, 08:14 PM
okaaay..Eeyore :dispirited: I'm thinking I'll take the more positive path to see what happens!

Minamommy
09-03-2014, 07:15 AM
I love this board and what it stands for! Every time I see someone foolishly put their bird in danger it makes me mad. I just saw on Facebook where someone lost their CAG offering $1000 for it. I said to my husband huh that idiot is probably one of those that takes their bird outside with no flight suit or cage and just thinks they will sit there! Tick me off! Ok I'm off my soap box, but that's why I'm here. I believe in what the forum is about [emoji3]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Animalman2046
09-03-2014, 11:40 AM
Great article......thanks for sharing. I try to remember although I have had birds for many years here (most of my life) that I do not know everything and can always learn something new. That is why I joined the forum. I also try to be careful how I respond to threads so as not to hurt someone and maybe drive them away from the forum. Remember we are all here to share and learn and enjoy not to be judgmental and condemn others. Thanks again for sharing.

plax
09-03-2014, 05:07 PM
I love this board and what it stands for! Every time I see someone foolishly put their bird in danger it makes me mad. I just saw on Facebook where someone lost their CAG offering $1000 for it. I said to my husband huh that idiot is probably one of those that takes their bird outside with no flight suit or cage and just thinks they will sit there! Tick me off! Ok I'm off my soap box, but that's why I'm here. I believe in what the forum is about [emoji3]Thanks so much for your support, Kim. It is genuinely appreciated! There are plenty of folks who will say they oppose mistreatment of pets and/or dangerous situations imposed upon them. But few folks are willing to actually stand against those things. Each and every time that such matters are passively ignored on the Internet, it sends the message that it's really no big deal. Disturbingly, that message often ends up bolstering the decisions of certain folks to engage in similar irresponsible practices with their own pets :(. Again, thanks Kim!

Minamommy
09-03-2014, 06:04 PM
I almost caught myself guilty of this very thing having Mina's room done over she and our pug Olive are in close quarters. I thought I was right there with them on the bed Olive was asleep and has shown no interest in Mina so I got her out. She had seen my husband loving on Olive earlier I guess and the green monster got the better of her. She tried to attack Olive. Thank goodness I'm responsible enough never to leave them alone together but she was out to hurt olive. Shame on me. She is now in her cage if Olive is in our room. There is no room for error on either part. I'm disappointed in myself that I compromised my principals and that happened. So glad no one was hurt. It just proves what we are all about here.


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plax
09-03-2014, 06:34 PM
I almost caught myself guilty of this very thing having Mina's room done over she and our pug Olive are in close quarters. I thought I was right there with them on the bed Olive was asleep and has shown no interest in Mina so I got her out. She had seen my husband loving on Olive earlier I guess and the green monster got the better of her. She tried to attack Olive. Thank goodness I'm responsible enough never to leave them alone together but she was out to hurt olive. Shame on me. She is now in her cage if Olive is in our room. There is no room for error on either part. I'm disappointed in myself that I compromised my principals and that happened. So glad no one was hurt. It just proves what we are all about here. Indeed! All it takes is one instance -and a mere second in some cases- and a beloved bird is dead :'(