Has anyone used nzymes

[Cedardave]

Hello,
I just joined this forum..looks great.So my first post is a question.....with some backround info.I have a breeding pair of Calico macaws.My female has significant weekness in the legs.We have seen a certified avian vet who did exrays and bloodwork.The bloodwork showed she had an elevated level of something(i forget what)that indicates shes struggling with an injury...no kidding.We brought her in thinking she was eggbound, but not so.Xrays didnt indicate any injury.We were given anti inflamitories and sent on our way.It would seem canadian avian vets are not quite up to speed with many other countries when it comes to their knowledge on bird health.Anyway,through a fellow breeder, an avian vet in california recomended a product called nzymes.Has anyone here ever heard of or used this stuff.Im hopeing to hear some success stories.This stuff almost sounds to good to be true.

[Honesty]

Hello and :pp_welcome:Thank you for joining us :)

I cannot help you with your question on nzymes, but I am pretty sure someone will be along shortly to answer your question!

We would love to see some pics of your Calico Macaws and the rest of your flock :)

[Cedardave]

Im good with the birds....technology ,not so much.I shal get one of my kids to help with some pictures

[Honesty]

Look forward to seeing them :th_biggrin:

[PlaxMacaws]

Hello Cedardave. I have no experience with the Nzymes product line. I believe their products are in the holistic nutritional supplements class. My suggestion would be to call your avian vet's clinic and ask for an elaboration on what your bird's test results revealed. Find out what was elevated (white blood cell count, etc.). If a diagnosis wasn't rendered, I would press for one. If they are unable to provide a diagnosis and course of treatment, your best bet may be to have a second avian veterinarian assess your bird.

Do you know if it could be a neurologically based condition? How long has the weakness been present? Did the symptoms present with a sudden onset? Are the symptoms becoming worse? What normal functions can your bird currently perform and not perform? Those are just some of the questions for which you should have answers available, especially to any veterinarians that you consult with.

Please keep us posted.

[Cedardave]

I think it was her white bloodcell count.She refered to it as wbc now that I think about it.
The vet suggested it could be temperary paralysis as a result of an injury...or could be something
else...shes not sure.My poor girl basically uses her beak and neck to carefully guide herself around the
Cage.We always have a nesting box attached to the cage.She spends alot of time resting in there.I will
likely end up at a differant vet.Shes not getting worse..shes just holding steady,not improving.If it was an
Injury,it will take time..which is why I havent taken her to a differant vet yet.The vet she went to also posts
xray and bloodwork results on a vet forum so she can get opinions from other vets.No one seems to have given
any answers.So for now we wait a bit.She is recieving wheat germ and vitamin b in addition to her regular
diet as suggested by the vet.She if fed Harrisons high potency pellets,cantaloupe.honeydew,banana,apples
(no seeds)as well as broccoli,carrotsand other assorted fruits and veggies when available.Im trying to
keep an eye on her water intake.

[Cedardave]

This was a relatively sudden occurance which leads me to the injury possability.
I would rather help an injury heal than deal with illness or something health related

[PlaxMacaws]

Is she able to grasp at all with her feet and toes? And if not, do her feet and toes respond to touch or cold temperatures (such as to momentary contact with a small piece of ice)? Does she drag her legs when trying to move around and climb? Or can she put one leg ahead of the other to any extent? If it were a limb injury, one would think it would only involve one leg (and perhaps the foot on that leg). That's why I'm wondering whether her disability may have a neurologic cause. Might it be that she somehow injured her lower spine.

By the way, how old is she?

[spiritbird]

Cedar, Tony knows what he is talking about. You could not have a better adviser.

[Cedardave]

Her situation started about 2weeks ago.She uses her beak to stabalize herself as she moves.
She doesnt move her toes much.Her legs do seem to have some strength.She will hook her beak on a bar
and pull herself up or lower herself.She does so in a way that she puts her toes on the bars whether going
up down or sideways.If it was a spinal injury shouldnt something have shown up on the xray?

[Cedardave]

We got her this past summer and the person we got her from said she was around 15 or so.Im awaiting
clarrification on that.Her toes really dont respond very much.Almost like a pinched nerve.Often she will perch
with 2 toes front 2 toes back on each foot.Sometimes she perches 4 toes forward,balancing with her beak on the
cage and resting on the heel of her foot.Her legs and feet have normal color.

[PlaxMacaws]

If it was a spinal injury shouldnt something have shown up on the xray?It depends. First I will say that I am not a veterinarian. Also, please note that my advice to you at this point would be to seek an opinion from a second avian vet.

A vertebral fracture should have been visible on the x-rays if the views were from the correct angles. However, certain disc misalignment instances may not show well, or even at all. There can be spinal cord compression and/or bruising without fracture. And things such as an abscess, a tumor, or a ruptured disc can result in pain with or without partial paralysis. It can be difficult to assess the condition of the spinal cord from radiograph images. It's also worth noting that an elevated WBC doesn't always indicate the presence of a bacterial or viral infection. It can as well increase in response to tissue inflammation from various other causes.

Again, I would recommend to get a second medical assessment of your bird's impairment from a different qualified avian veterinarian.

[Cedardave]

thanks for the advise.I did clarrify she is indeed 15 years old.Im wondering if perhaps she was injured during a mateing session.As for the xrays the took 2 to cover as much as they thought they needed.You are correct that the xrays will not show every possability.I suppose a visit to another vet is the next step...hard to help a disorder if you dont know what it is.
thanks again for your help.

[PlaxMacaws]

thanks for the advise.I did clarrify she is indeed 15 years old.Im wondering if perhaps she was injured during a mateing session.As for the xrays the took 2 to cover as much as they thought they needed.You are correct that the xrays will not show every possability.I suppose a visit to another vet is the next step...hard to help a disorder if you dont know what it is.
thanks again for your help.You're welcome. Please keep us updated!

[Cedardave]

Hello all,
Well Im not sure if its the nzymes product or time,but it appears Isabella is starting to get a little bit of movement in her feet again.

[PlaxMacaws]

Hello all,
Well Im not sure if its the nzymes product or time,but it appears Isabella is starting to get a little bit of movement in her feet again.That seems somewhat positive, Dave. Have you arranged for a second opinion yet?

[Cedardave]

I have seen another vet...same tests...same results .It seems like something they havent seen before....seems odd to me.I have also been in touch with other vets who havent scene her as well as a bird rescue here locally...both suggested pinched nerve...possible lower spine injury.Someone suggested because she is a calico(hybrid)that she is genetically week.Vets arent sure on that...I didnt create her as I hybrid she was bought as part of a breeding pair.Of course if people are opposed to hybrids their opinion sways to week genetics.At any rate, there is no particular course of action.We did a short course of anti inflamiteries...but as you likely know they can suffer kidney damage if they are on them to long.So for now we continue to explore other possable solutions.

[PlaxMacaws]

Wow! That's a tough case, Dave :(. Sometimes there's no way to determine the cause of a particular condition for certain. To me the pinched nerve/spine injury theory seems a valid possibility. And yes, anti-inflammatories can produce kidney AND Liver damage with prolonged use. You also want to make sure that a bird is eating food and drinking plenty of water prior to administering such medications. If the anti-inflammatory medication didn't seem to improve her condition or provide any significant relief to her, I don't blame you for discontinuing it.

Have you attempted to email Dr. Brian Speer in California to ask his opinion?

[Cedardave]

It was recomended to ask Dr Scott McDonald.He had similar opinions as the vets I visited.
A bird breeder friend of ours contacted a vet in California, apparently a Macaw specialist.He had
been the one who had suggested we try the nzymes.Isabella is still getting around ,eatting and drinking.
She seems to be using her toes but only slightly more than before.Hopefully in time she will be back to normal.
It is discouraging not to have answers or ways to help.

[PlaxMacaws]

Ah yes, Dr. McD is good. So is Dr. Speer - he's ABVP-avian certified and quite high profile. If you're interested in running the situation by him as well, I can PM you his email address. Just let me know.

I wish the best for your girl. Hopefully she will recover with time.

[Cedardave]

Yes ...by all means.At this point any help I can get .I would gladly contact anyone who has any insite.

[PlaxMacaws]

Yes ...by all means.At this point any help I can get .I would gladly contact anyone who has any insite.I've sent it to you. Keep us posted!

[Cedardave]

Thank you...will do