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Minamommy
11-05-2013, 02:09 AM
My 18 month old umbrella cockatoo is not weened again. She was weened until she became very ill with salmonella from her food. She had lost her appetite.now she will not eat her pellets. Just fruit and hand feeding formula. What I want to know is can a bird starve? I keep pellets available all the time. She doesn't eat them I'm still giving her formula once a day and fruit. My question is how do I get this little girl weened? I've tried everything. Birdy bread soaking food eating her bird food you name it. I take her to the vet to get her checked again on Wednesday. I'm just so scared.

Mare
11-05-2013, 03:57 AM
I'm so sorry to hear you are still having issues with this :(. I'm sure that, yes a bird can starve. When Amigo was off his feed, not eating or drinking, I definitely fed him with the syringe until I could get him to the vet. I have no experience with weaning a bird, so, I can't help you there. I hope your vet has some answers for you.

Honesty
11-05-2013, 08:38 AM
I think for now you will just have to carry on feeding with the formula and maybe the vet can guide you on this when you see him on Wed. Let us know how you get on!

Minamommy
11-06-2013, 01:20 AM
Thank you all. I know this is something I keep asking about. I feel kind of like a failure bird mommy 😓. I will let you know what I find out at the vet.

Blancaej
11-06-2013, 01:35 AM
You are no failure! We all have to learn as we go sometimes. I would continue feeding with formula until you see your vet and ask them. Good luck!

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Mare
11-06-2013, 03:45 AM
Nooo! Don't ever feel like a failure! These birds are hard to learn, believe me, I know! I had a thought today and when I thought back on first trying to get Amigo to eat pellets, I was eating a bowl of oatmeal one morning, sitting in a rocker next to his cage. He crawled down to sit with me and couldn't get enough of my oatmeal! I like my oatmeal with brown sugar, a little butter and almond milk. I wondered if I could get him to eat his pellets if I ground them up and cooked them in oatmeal, for him? YES! To this day, he will still not touch a pellet, except to fling it from his dish, I make him his oatmeal, daily, with a touch of brown sugar and ground up pellets. This is how I get him to eat his pellets.

What I'm getting at is, why don't you try some runny oatmeal, that tastes good to you and sit with Mina to see if she'll accept that? I know you've got to be frustrated but you've just got to keep trying, don't give up :)

coltfire
11-06-2013, 05:01 AM
when im weaning my birds, i start to change the formula, by adding baby food first with the formula, slowly taking the formula totally out and as i do i add more of there food or mushed up so it can still go through syringe and slowly cut down the amount but at the same time have a bowl with the same food in it so they can fill up on whats in the bowl until they no longer want the syringe or when i see they are eating plenty from the bowl.

spiritbird
11-06-2013, 01:26 PM
Sounds good Steve. Kind of like starting over again. Best of luck with your bird.

Blancaej
11-06-2013, 01:44 PM
When I had a rough start with Quincy, we bonded over oatmeal. :)

I think most birds love it, so I think Mare has a good idea there.
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Minamommy
11-07-2013, 03:50 AM
Nooo! Don't ever feel like a failure! These birds are hard to learn, believe me, I know! I had a thought today and when I thought back on first trying to get Amigo to eat pellets, I was eating a bowl of oatmeal one morning, sitting in a rocker next to his cage. He crawled down to sit with me and couldn't get enough of my oatmeal! I like my oatmeal with brown sugar, a little butter and almond milk. I wondered if I could get him to eat his pellets if I ground them up and cooked them in oatmeal, for him? YES! To this day, he will still not touch a pellet, except to fling it from his dish, I make him his oatmeal, daily, with a touch of brown sugar and ground up pellets. This is how I get him to eat his pellets.

What I'm getting at is, why don't you try some runny oatmeal, that tastes good to you and sit with Mina to see if she'll accept that? I know you've got to be frustrated but you've just got to keep trying, don't give up :)

That is brilliant!!!! I'm sure she would eat it because she does eat my cereal and other things. Imam going to try it. I have even sat with this stinker and ate Harrison's and do you think she will eat it? Nope grrr. But I will have oatmeal with her tomorrow. Thank you.

Mare
11-07-2013, 04:29 AM
Minamommy, start with just a few pellets ground in a spice mill, to a small amount of oatmeal, and make it on the wet side. If it's too dry a mixture, I know my birds won't eat it. Add a couple more pellets, after a few days, and you will learn where Mina's tolerance level, with these pellets, is. Too many pellets, is a no go around here :)

Minamommy
11-08-2013, 04:41 AM
Well I am so so upset. Mina was to the vet today and she lost quite a bit of weight. My scales showed a gain so I'm going to have to throw that thing out the window. Her stool had all gram + things? No neg rods. The vet said this means she is malnourished. She took blood for aspergillosis and I have to get a stool sample for salmonella. 3 grams of poop. That's a lot of bird poop lol. I hand fed her and Mare I gave her some oatmeal tonight and she liked it a little bit. I had to put a little regular 2% milk in but she didn't eat enough to hurt herself. So for the next 7 days at least she gets hand fed with organic baby food added. At this point I'm in tears because I don't know is it behavioral and I'm going overboard with the vet. The vet said its because I'm home all day with her too. But I'm not WITH her all day. She plays alone a lot. I'm in and out while I do other things.

Mare
11-08-2013, 05:07 AM
I don't understand what you mean by the vet saying you are home with her all day, is that suppose to be an issue? Try not to stress about this, that sure won't help. I'm sorry, I know you can't help it but you've got to try and take a deep breath, do what you can and not take it out on yourself. I hope the vet can find something treatable, hang in there mama.:th_hug8:

Debra
11-08-2013, 04:30 PM
We're praying for her here. We don't like to hear about a sick bird/animal. Please keep us informed as to her health and what the vet says about this.

Pinkbirdy
11-11-2013, 01:05 AM
Im sorry if I missed something on this . But your bird sounds sick [somethings not right] My macaw was sick last year. She ate [and was drastically losing weight].What she had was something that mirrored [chlamydia].It attaches itself to an organ and can harbor in the body a long time. Im not saying your bird has this .I feel their something more going on here [bug your vet].

Minamommy
11-15-2013, 04:52 AM
Yes! My vet did say she may have chlamydia. I told her she couldn't because she was tested and was negative for it. She has never been around other birds or out anywhere to catch it so I didn't feel she could have gotten it. But you say something mirrors it? I had called her old vet ( he was out of town that's how I got the new vet) and he said you can't just go by her stool. If she looks good and is happy I think it's behavioral. Soooo a cockatoo behaviorist called me Jamie Whitaker oh boy I am a really bad fid mommy. I should never have hand fed her! No fruits for her. No snuggling under the covers with her. She did give a lot of helpful hints. I just wish the vet had said "if she is pooping she is eating". Jamie said that. And a light went one like oh yea duh. So I really am the one making Mina sick. 😓


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Feathers First Aviary
11-15-2013, 12:38 PM
I'm not sure what you mean by you should have never hand fed her? Was she still on feedings when you got her? I don't encourage people to hand feed their own babies because of two reasons, one, hand feeding can be difficult and it's not hard to injure or kill the bird, and two, if you are hand feeding a baby it is going to see you as a parent, and what do babies do when they grow up? they fledge the nest and leave their parents in pursuit of a mate, the bond you want to be forming with your bird is a mate bond, not a parent child bond, even though must of us do refer to our birds as our children(I do anyway). But, it isn't a death sentence and I do know plenty of people that have finished out their own babies and still have a very impressive bond, even many years later. Now, if she was weaned and you started hand feeding her just as a treat, yes that could cause some regression. But, it is also very common for babies to regress when moved to a new home anyway. That's why babies should be kept with the breeder for at least a week after they have begun to refuse all feedings. Without knowing the background on you and your baby I can't be of much help but I do have a few pointers. Get a new scale, or recalibrate the one you have. Weigh her every day, first thing in the morning while her crop is still empty and write it down. If she really isn't eating on her own at all you will need to hand feed her at least three times a day. I would also add a probiotic powder to her formula and you may want to do some research on handfeeding adult(maybe not adult but birds that are more than a few months old) birds. Formulas are formulated for babies, there may be some supplements you should be adding to meet the needs of an older baby. I'm not sure on this one but then again, I've only hand fed babies so it's just something I thought may be necessary, I'm really not positive but I would atleast be giving her probiotics because of the infection. I'm assuming she has been on antibiotics which can kill all the good bacteria necessary for digestion as well. On the chlamydia aspect, I would have her tested again, I would personally have her tested for chlamydia, pachecos and psitticosis but I test my aviary for all of those(and then some) a few times a year anyway just to be safe. And I wills say, you can have false negatives and false positives, and some of these diseases have a fairly long incubation period or can even become dormant in which case they will throw a negative test. If you do the testing yourself through avian biotech you can test for all three for under $100. Even though you have never had her around other birds, I assume she was around other birds while she was at the breeder and even just taking her to the vet brings some chance for exposure, not to mention if you have purchased any toys from a petstore that sells birds, or even if you have held another bird and then held her without changing your clothes. I'm not saying I think it's a disease, I'm just saying there are a number of ways to pick something icky up, even if your bird has no direct contact with other birds.

Oatmeal is a good starter food as well as baby cereal. We get organic baby cereal for our guys and it is smooth enough that it can even be squirted through a syringe. If you ever have a bird that is having trouble keeping formula down and is regurgitating it right after feeding, a couple feedings of baby cereal is usually enough to calm their bellies/crops and resolve the problem. :)

One last thing, I'm sure you know this but cockatoos appreciate a keeping a schedule, they are creatures of habit and seem to do well if kept in a routine if possible. :) Good luck, and if you feel like your vet maybe isn't seeing something you can always get a second opinion :)

Minamommy
11-17-2013, 02:04 AM
I'm not sure what you mean by you should have never hand fed her? Was she still on feedings when you got her? I don't encourage people to hand feed their own babies because of two reasons, one, hand feeding can be difficult and it's not hard to injure or kill the bird, and two, if you are hand feeding a baby it is going to see you as a parent, and what do babies do when they grow up? they fledge the nest and leave their parents in pursuit of a mate, the bond you want to be forming with your bird is a mate bond, not a parent child bond, even though must of us do refer to our birds as our children(I do anyway). But, it isn't a death sentence and I do know plenty of people that have finished out their own babies and still have a very impressive bond, even many years later. Now, if she was weaned and you started hand feeding her just as a treat, yes that could cause some regression. But, it is also very common for babies to regress when moved to a new home anyway. That's why babies should be kept with the breeder for at least a week after they have begun to refuse all feedings. Without knowing the background on you and your baby I can't be of much help but I do have a few pointers. Get a new scale, or recalibrate the one you have. Weigh her every day, first thing in the morning while her crop is still empty and write it down. If she really isn't eating on her own at all you will need to hand feed her at least three times a day. I would also add a probiotic powder to her formula and you may want to do some research on handfeeding adult(maybe not adult but birds that are more than a few months old) birds. Formulas are formulated for babies, there may be some supplements you should be adding to meet the needs of an older baby. I'm not sure on this one but then again, I've only hand fed babies so it's just something I thought may be necessary, I'm really not positive but I would atleast be giving her probiotics because of the infection. I'm assuming she has been on antibiotics which can kill all the good bacteria necessary for digestion as well. On the chlamydia aspect, I would have her tested again, I would personally have her tested for chlamydia, pachecos and psitticosis but I test my aviary for all of those(and then some) a few times a year anyway just to be safe. And I wills say, you can have false negatives and false positives, and some of these diseases have a fairly long incubation period or can even become dormant in which case they will throw a negative test. If you do the testing yourself through avian biotech you can test for all three for under $100. Even though you have never had her around other birds, I assume she was around other birds while she was at the breeder and even just taking her to the vet brings some chance for exposure, not to mention if you have purchased any toys from a petstore that sells birds, or even if you have held another bird and then held her without changing your clothes. I'm not saying I think it's a disease, I'm just saying there are a number of ways to pick something icky up, even if your bird has no direct contact with other birds.

Oatmeal is a good starter food as well as baby cereal. We get organic baby cereal for our guys and it is smooth enough that it can even be squirted through a syringe. If you ever have a bird that is having trouble keeping formula down and is regurgitating it right after feeding, a couple feedings of baby cereal is usually enough to calm their bellies/crops and resolve the problem. :)

One last thing, I'm sure you know this but cockatoos appreciate a keeping a schedule, they are creatures of habit and seem to do well if kept in a routine if possible. :) Good luck, and if you feel like your vet maybe isn't seeing something you can always get a second opinion :)




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Minamommy
11-17-2013, 02:11 AM
Thank you your words of wisdom are very helpful. I got Mina at 3 months and did finish Mina's feedings. She was weaned to Harrison's very easy. Then she became very sick and stopped eating. No one told me to hand feed her but my vet way out of town and I panicked and started to do it not knowing it was dangerous for her, and potent all making her sick. I only buy her toys from places that have no contact with birds and I don't hold other peoples birds. I do agree that maybe she should be retested and will talk to her vet about it. I appreciate your advice on that. I had no idea that they may need to be retested. Thank you.


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Pinkbirdy
11-17-2013, 02:58 AM
They ran tests on Harlow and said they thought she had chlamydia [because of her symptoms]. I was waiting for results on that for sure which take a few days .But they wernt going to wait to treat her .she was very sick.I wouldn't play around with this. Run don't walk get Doxycycline .NO BAYTRIL !!!!!! .If that's what they want to do [they have no clue].I don't think this is behavioral at all. Your birds sick. They had me hand feed her with a beefed up formula for nutrients and weight.[She was weak].It ended up not being chlamydia .If it had been the health department would have to come to my house to see the rest of my birds . I was lucky nobody else had it . I don't know where she got it [it can harbor in the body a long time.] I would be like I don't care where she got this treat her NOW!! Harlow would have died. Baytril will not touch most bird illnesses.

Feathers First Aviary
11-17-2013, 05:47 AM
Baytril does work well on low grade infections such as crop infections, URI's and for minor cuts and scratches to prevent infections but for stronger infections Doxy is the way to go. Doxy is way stronger though and is a bit harsh on the birds so it's not something I would use for minor illnesses. My husband contracted lyme disease earlier this year and was prescribed Doxycycline because it's one of the few antibiotics that will treat lyme, every pharmacy we called wanted over $100 to fill the script and it was only 3 weeks worth of pills! Luckily we found one pharmacy that gave it to us for around $50. It did give him really bad stomach cramps and pain the entire time he was on it which he has never had happen when taking any of the cillans(amoxycillan, etc). I've never had to give Doxy to a bird thankfully, did Harlow react to it negatively in any way?

Pinkbirdy
11-17-2013, 06:10 PM
The vets I have available to me here [are not true "Bird Vets"] as I learned .Harlow and I did 3 months of 3 different vets [lots of Baytril]she kept getting worse [and all of them said "She might have to be put down] .I took her to Cornel.I had to know what was wrong with her [I thought this was her last stop]. I was convinced it must be cancer [because if it was a infection it should havw improved with all that baytril. Cornel tested her from head to toe . Said she was not going to die [remember she had something that mirrored chlamydia . Cornels the one that told me that baytril will not touch most bird illnesses [very true in Harlows case] She responded very well to the doxycycline [ maybe it was just the right dose]. They were very matter of fact about this, how she would take a 2 month round of this [and would be fine]. She was !!! Ive never had an animal this close to death and survive. Just a heads up on my story . Be ready to question your vets on info. If they don't have an answer look elsewhere . I had 3 vets that could have suggested [they didn't know] . Instead they were gladly willing to continue to take my money. Im sad to think of the bird owners that im sure lost birds to these vets [and didn't have to]. Harlow would have died.

Minamommy
11-18-2013, 03:22 AM
My one vet really wants to find out what is wrong. She is new out of vet school and she had to look everything up and check with her old professors. She tries hard though. My other vet doesn't want to do much but he has a lot of experience and sound advice. I wish I could mix the two. Pinkbirdy do you live near Cornel?

Feathers First Aviary
11-18-2013, 05:01 AM
Terri, I'm so glad you got a second(and third) opinion, it seems like it saved harlows life. We have three vets we go to, two are certified avian vets, the other isn't but she trained under one of my avian vets and has birds herself. She is the one I can contact any time if need be and if I call her up, explain the situation and ask her for something she will usually oblige without making me bring the bird in. This is NOT something I would suggest to most people and I'm sure neither would she but I only do this in cases where I have treated the bird exactly how the vet would and just need certain things from them, if I can avoid having to stress the bird out more by taking them out into a strange environment, especially if its cold out like now, i will try to do that instead. Now, if its an illness I am not sure of, they go right to the avian vets office. If someone has an accident though and gets a scrape or a cut, I feel 100% capable of taking care of it at home and just picking up meds as I described. When we got our umbrella too he suddenly started acting very lethargic after about a month. Of course it happened in the middle of the night when the vet was not open. We moved him to our room and put heat on him and held him all night, at one point I was holding him and I thought he was going to pass away in my hands. I was in tears as his eyes closed and his feet began to tightly curl shut. We stroked him and talked to him as encouragingly as possible as we syringed him pedialyte just begging for him to hold on until morning. Morning came and he was still with us, I bundled him up and held him the whole way to the vet. Our avian vet was pretty sure it was a bacterial infection brought on by years of poor care and the stress of moving to two homes in the passed six months weakened his immune system to the point that he nearly succumbed to it. He was so weak by the time we got to the vet they didn't want to wait for test results to start treatment. We put him on a course of baytril and by the 24 hour mark he was like a different bird. Within two days he was practically back to normal. I was sure this bird was going to die in my arms and thanks to the baytril he was almost 100% better in two days. It was nothing short of a miracle in my eyes. Its crazy how fast he went downhill too, the only sign he was ill was that he was acting sleepier than normal, a few hours after we noticed the sleepiness he was literally on deaths door. I honestly think he would have given up and passed on if we hadn't been holding him and just pleading with him to stay awake and stay with us. It just goes to show that it's so important to know what is normal for your birds, if anything changes, while it may be nothing, it also may be your first and only sign that something is seriously wrong.

Sorry if there are a lot of typos and run ons, I'm on my phone right now.

Pinkbirdy
11-18-2013, 04:15 PM
My one vet really wants to find out what is wrong. She is new out of vet school and she had to look everything up and check with her old professors. She tries hard though. My other vet doesn't want to do much but he has a lot of experience and sound advice. I wish I could mix the two. Pinkbirdy do you live near Cornel? Cornels about an hour and a half from me {well worth the trip].. They are a teaching hospital [have everything right there] labs ,equipment,latest medicine. If your near there. They would want a call from you [then one from your current vet] its just how they do things . Then they contact you. His names Dr Morrisey .I use them from now on [why guess].

Minamommy
11-18-2013, 05:25 PM
Cornel is also about an hour to an hour and a half from my house. We live in a small town in PA. She is eating more fresh veggies and fruit. Just no pellets. She has had two runs of baytril. I don't want to kill off the good flora. I think a visit to cornel may be in order if I can't get her eating pellets by the end of the week. Seems silly when she is normal otherwise and is now eating more fresh stuff. I still don't think it's enough. She ate much more right after she was weaned.


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Pinkbirdy
11-18-2013, 08:50 PM
I noticed when Harlow was sick her droppings changed,wanted to eat apples [I don't know why] didn't want to play with toys lost weight and eventually became lethargic.

Feathers First Aviary
11-19-2013, 11:30 AM
minamommy, we are in pa as well and I know at least 4 good avian vets, 2 that we use and two that other local breeders I know use. If you want to pm me what town you are in I may be able to direct you to some other vets in your area in case you ever need them :)