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Rescued
09-16-2013, 06:30 PM
I am sure that many of the US posters know already of the shootings at The Navy Yard in DC. I am so disturbed by this horrible occurrence. My friend is locked into one of the buildings and thankfully she is ok, my husband was working on a base close by and was also on lockdown. At this point it is assumed that there are multiple shooters and several are at large. The death toll continues to rise with very little understanding of the motivation behind this terrible situation. Only a few days past the anniversary of Sept 11, this brings back so many terrible memories for myself and many others.

Blancaej
09-17-2013, 01:14 AM
Oh Wow, that is awful! Glad everyone you know is ok! Very scary. You never know where something like this will take place next.

Rescued
09-17-2013, 01:57 AM
Yes it is another terrible tragedy. In this instance another one that is so close to home.

plax
09-17-2013, 02:20 AM
It's so hard to wrap my mind around bizarre and horrific tragedies such as this one. I feel so sad for the victims and their families and friends. I'm relieved to know that your husband and your friend escaped harm today, Elizabeth.

ConureGuy
09-17-2013, 03:38 AM
That's just bloody horrid i'm glad the people you know are safely locked down i feel for the families that have lost there loved ones due to terrible people such as these ones it's a nasty world we live in and i hope these shooters are stopped soon.

spiritbird
09-17-2013, 01:11 PM
I am thinking there are many individuals with mental illnesses that are free in this world to purchase guns and act mean and angry each and every day. I wish there was a reporting system so these individuals could get help. So it would seem that no matter how secure a building or other place is a person, with signs of mental illness, can get in who is somehow armed and cause chaos and death. Ok off my soap box.

Rescued
09-17-2013, 01:29 PM
At this point it is not clear what the motivation was. This man had the appropriate credentials to be there which is a disturbing thought, however one can only screen so much. People are more capable of hate and aggression than anything else on the planet. It is truly a sad state of affairs.

plax
09-17-2013, 03:09 PM
It's unfortunately true. Humans are the most dangerous and volatile beings on Earth! They cause the most devastation to their own kind, as well as to other species. And it doesn't help that man obviously possesses the intelligence to have created and mass-produced the machines which facilitate the rampant death and destruction that's so commonplace today :(

Mental health and weapons access are indeed significant factors. One big problem is that each time someone proposes a solution to curtail gun violence, various powerful groups oppose said solution, so little gets accomplished. Sadly, such disagreement has been a huge barrier to improving public safety.

spiritbird
09-17-2013, 10:34 PM
All this gunman did was cross over into Virginia which has very lenient gun laws and made a purchase. No questions asked.

Rescued
09-18-2013, 03:11 AM
Not to get too political, but the gun control laws are not at fault here. Honestly in my opinion, the main issue with these mass shootings isn't the availability of weapons, but a lack of mental health care. One cannot blame the instrument, it could very well have been a bombing, a poisoning, or countless other ways to kill a large amount of people. As far as I know this man had no reason to not be allowed to purchase a gun, though I am not 100% sure on this.

plax
09-18-2013, 05:06 AM
Not to get too political, but the gun control laws are not at fault here. Honestly in my opinion, the main issue with these mass shootings isn't the availability of weapons, but a lack of mental health care. One cannot blame the instrument, it could very well have been a bombing, a poisoning, or countless other ways to kill a large amount of people. As far as I know this man had no reason to not be allowed to purchase a gun, though I am not 100% sure on this.Well, I can't agree with that old argument, Elizabeth. It doesn't consider that the US is afflicted with more gun deaths each year than any other developed nation, in conjunction with the fact that there are more guns sold and more guns owned privately within the US than in any other developed nation. I think it's fairly clear that more gun access equates to more gun crime and more gun deaths. It can certainly also be argued that the US may have more nutcases than elsewhere. However, if that's true then it would stand to reason that said nutcases are able to acquire guns from our country's plentiful firearm resource supply more easily than in countries where guns are not as readily available. As such, they are able to simply acquire the guns, point them at people, then pull the triggers... which is substantially easier than acquiring the knowledge needed to effectively build bombs and then deploy them, or acquiring knowledge about mass-poisoning techniques and then effectively deploying lethal poisons. So logic tends to hold that guns being so readily available here in the US is a significant contributor to the extreme levels of gun violence we see on our soil.

As for mental health screening... it's a good idea. But some of these shooters have no mental health records or known psychiatric histories. So you can't really screen and learn of their propensities toward random violence without making mental health screening mandatory for everyone, or at least requiring that anyone purchasing a firearm pass a mental health screening evaluation prior to obtaining the firearm - even for private sales.

Rescued
09-18-2013, 12:30 PM
While I won't disagree that gun violence is a problem, I do feel that there are too many factors that go into the equation to make it so cut and dry.
As to mental health, I am not suggesting screening before purchasing a firearm, for one that is too subjective, two it changes, and three is not realistic. What I am saying is that our citizens do not have access to good mental health care, or are taught that such care is only for "crazy people", women, or whatever stereotype they have had perpetuated. Most of these incidents have been done with by people who were known to have some mental disorder that at the time of the incident was not under treatment. There is also the overall complacency of citizens to reach out when something is clearly wrong. These incidents don't usually come as a surprise to people who are close to the shooter. People almost always say that something like this was bound to happen, if that's the case we need to acknowledge our part in it as well. Our own veterans come back from terrible things and are thrust into daily life with very little support from the VA or any other organization and are expected to function again. We turn them into killers, give them knowledge, then dump them. These men and women are bound to have problems, we maybe should take away their firearms, but what they really need is support, medical care, and understanding. The gun violence issue is complicated and multifaceted, a simple solution is a fairy tail.

plax
09-18-2013, 01:07 PM
I think far too many people exist who behave strangely and who are withdrawn from society to impose mental health evaluations upon each of them. So that wouldn't be a practical solution... that is, you can't really force action upon everyone who behaves in a bizarre manner and take away their gun rights. Individuals who exhibit bizarre behaviors are simply too plentiful.

You've made some valid points, Elizabeth. But I think that my points are valid as well. The points that I've raised cannot be reasonably overlooked or explained away by claiming that gun violence causation is "too complex" or that "too many factors" are involved. The things that I laid out are valid indicators which, I believe, each of us would do well to consider.

One of our moderators wants to close this thread since it has more or less taken on a political tone. I've decided that I'm not going to stand in the way if the moderator decides to intervene.

ShellyBorg
09-19-2013, 12:08 AM
I value both sides of the fence here and everyone has a right to their opinion, but as I was told as a child: "Never talk religion or politics at a family gathering." I see this forum as a extended family and wish no one to feel hurt or slighted so I will be shutting this down. Lets keep the ones killed and the families that have been forever harmed by this tragedy in our thoughts. Thank you everyone.