Zaffer: Zaf had a terrible accident :'(

[PlaxMacaws]

This morning while I was cleaning cages, Zaf became startled by one of his molted feathers as it fell away from him while he was perched atop his cage - he has had a longstanding fear of his suddenly released longer feathers. Well, he launched into a panic flight and rapidly descended into a cage tray that was partially slid out of another cage. Very sadly, he snapped his right tibia in half. I immediately transported him to my vet for emergency treatment. The vet snapped some radiograph images to confirm and asses the extent of Zaf's injury and then applied a rigid splint-wrap to his leg.

Zaf is back home with me now and spending most of his time in one of my kennel carriers. There aren't many places he can be in his current state since he tries to climb high in/on any cage or tall structure to which he's given access. Such climbing presents a risk for further injuring himself.

I'm concerned that Zaf may whittle through the splint-wrap, and I'm very worried about potential nerve damage that may have occurred to his foot.

I'm absolutely sick over what happened to Zaf :'(. He's my special baby as well as my best friend :'(.

[ShellyBorg]

Poor Zaf! DId you talk to the vet about a collar or would that just upset him more? You will BOTh be in my thoughts...

[PlaxMacaws]

Poor Zaf! DId you talk to the vet about a collar or would that just upset him more? You will BOTh be in my thoughts...We're going to discuss other options if he starts to make too much destructive progress on the cast. Thanks Shelly.

[Honesty]

I am so sorry Tony! It must have been an awful experience for both you and Zaf:( You are both in my thoughts all the time. Give Zaf a big birdie hug from Codie and of course from me too!

[Pinkbirdy]

Oh Im so sorry :( Is he in pain ?

[Blancaej]

Oh no! Poor Zaf! :( You will both be in my thoughts and prayers that he heals quickly and without further injury!

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[josiesmom]

I am so sorry to hear this tony. I know you will do everything you can to make sure his recovery is pleasant. You and zaf will be in my prayers for a speedy recovery. Please keep us updated on his progress. Poor guy :-(

[Animalman2046]

Tony so sorry about the accident you and Zaf had. I know how you feel. I have a Crimson bellied conure who broke his leg due to his leg band getting caught in his cage bars while he was with the breeder before I rescued him. The breeder NEVER had it treated or seen by a avian vet and so it healed back grossly bad. When I got him I took him to my avian vet ASAP and they did x-rays and decided it had broke in a couple of places and had healed grossly non-joined and he was not a canidate for surgery to repair it. Ziggy has healed and he uses his bad leg well now and if you look at him you would never know he has special needs. I am thankful for that. Sounds like you are a great dad and doing all the right things. Good luck and keep us posted please.

[jacksmom]

Oh, no, I am so sorry!!!! Poor little dude! Since he is stable now and you are on the alert, I am sure he will be fine!

Is there not tiny stainless steel splints for birds? :( Seems like that would be easy! (My mind immediately goes to things like aquarium pump shafts, which are usually ss or hard plastic...cut to size...)

[Rescued]

Poor guys. I'm sorry that you all are having to deal with this. Prompt care an treatment are the best way to promote healing, so you are already ahead of the game. I hope that recovery is quick and uneventful. You are in our prayers.

[spiritbird]

Zaf You are in good hands so follow the Doc's instructions. Tony we are so so sorry for this accident. Sounds like it is a clean break and not splintered or otherwise. Sometimes they can insert pins to stabilize the fracture and he will slowly heal. Can you lower the perches in his present cage?

[plax]

Thanks everyone. Zaf is actually able to stand flat on both feet on the bottom of his carrier this morning! He also steps onto the low perch that's mounted in the carrier with his right foot and leg (assisted by his beak and other foot, of course). He doesn't have a good wrap-grasp around the perch at this point, but he's using the leg and foot at a minimal level. I'm quite encouraged by this concerning his potential for a good recovery. And yes, I have pain medication to administer to him every 24 hours. We very much appreciate each of your well wishes :)

[coltfire]

Tony im so sorry to hear about Zaf accident, you are both in my thoughts and prays,i will send some healing prays zaf's way, i hope he recovers as quick as possible.

[Debra]

Oh, no! Tony, I'm so sorry to hear this news. Poor Zaf. I know he's grateful to have a Dad like you who loves him enough to get him prompt veterinary care for his injuries. Give him a few scritches from me and my flock.

[ShellyBorg]

I am so glad Zaf is doing well this morning!

[Honesty]

I am so pleased to hear Zaf is doing well this morning and is able to stand on both feet:) This is certainly a good sign:)

[PlaxMacaws]

Zaf You are in good hands so follow the Doc's instructions. Tony we are so so sorry for this accident. Sounds like it is a clean break and not splintered or otherwise. Sometimes they can insert pins to stabilize the fracture and he will slowly heal. Can you lower the perches in his present cage?Yes, Dianne, it is a clean break, thankfully. The first thing I did was re-mount all of Zaf's cage perches as near to the floor as possible. But I can't allow him to be in his cage because he's still driven to climb up the bars as high as possible. I can't take the risk of him falling and further injuring himself. The vet and I have discussed the option of pinning together the two segments of Zaf's tibia. That would happen as a last resort. Thanks for your thoughts.

[PlaxMacaws]

Oh, no! Tony, I'm so sorry to hear this news. Poor Zaf. I know he's grateful to have a Dad like you who loves him enough to get him prompt veterinary care for his injuries. Give him a few scritches from me and my flock.Thanks Debra. I gave Zaf some scritches for you! :)

[Blancaej]

Glad he is doing well this morning! :)

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[plax]

Glad he is doing well this morning! :)Thanks Blanca. He's been whispering "hi" to me, fluffing up his head and neck feathers for scritches, and preening my fingers. I've also installed one of his ss grinding bolts in the carrier and he's been grinding his beak on it.

[ShellyBorg]

Sounds like he is going to be getting lots of one on one!

[plax]

Yes, plenty of one-on-one time, Shelly!

About 50 minutes ago, Zaf consumed his first square of peanut butter toast impregnated with his medication. I've also been allowing him out of the carrier periodically to lay on the couch beside me while I scratch him, pet him, and talk to him. He seems to be handling his condition rather well so far :)

[Honesty]

Thats great news on getting the meds into him with the toast and peanut butter:) It sounds like he is coping with it quite well.

[Blancaej]

Thanks Blanca. He's been whispering "hi" to me, fluffing up his head and neck feathers for scritches, and preening my fingers. I've also installed one of his ss grinding bolts in the carrier and he's been grinding his beak on it.

Sounds like he is acting pretty normal. All good signs. He has such a great Papa! :th_biggrin: Just being with you is helping him heal well. Smart move with the pb and toast! Keep up the great work! Like I really need to say that, right? :th_biggrin:

[kendrafitz]

I am so sorry to hear about Zaf's injury! Poor baby! I was relieved to read that he is doing so well. I can just picture that beautiful face looking at you, whispering hi! I hope that he continues to improve and is back to normal quickly. Ashie, Rosie & I are sending him lots of love!!

[plax]

I am so sorry to hear about Zaf's injury! Poor baby! I was relieved to read that he is doing so well. I can just picture that beautiful face looking at you, whispering hi! I hope that he continues to improve and is back to normal quickly. Ashie, Rosie & I are sending him lots of love!!Thanks so much, Kendra! He's the sweetest bird I've ever known. What happened to him on Thursday absolutely breaks my heart :(. I'm keeping him very, very close!

[plax]

Pics of poor sweet Zaf with his cast (3 in his temporary carrier home)...

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[ShellyBorg]

It looks like he is being a good boy with the cast. Thats great! Its good to see him bright eyed. :D

[Rescued]

The vet wrap is exactly the same color! I'm glad he is tolerating his bandage!

[Honesty]

A[Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks] I know he is not well, but he looks so sweet in those pics and he even has a cast to match his colouring:)

I am glad to see he is not picking at his cast!

[Debra]

I, too, love how his cast matches his feathers. He doesn't look too traumatized by this accident. That's a good thing.

[plax]

Yes, he's dealing with it. He's been having trouble getting much sleep at night, though :(. And yes, the vet wrap color choice seems most appropriate :th_biggrin:

[Blancaej]

He looks great and the cast is holding up well! Poor Zaf, hope his nights get better and he can get some sleep.

[Turquoise]

Oh Zaffers Baby, so sorry you have an 'Ick' on your widdle leg! Your such a good boy, you show Daddy that you know these things happen & sometimes it can't be helped. And that you know you have to stay in the little 'cage' so you can get well fast. :th_hug8: You hang in there Zaf and before you know it Daddy will have you well & back in your comfy home. :th_biggrin:

Sorry I'm getting to this so late. Work week sucks as far as internet time goes. Glad to hear Zaf is taking all this so well Tony. Don't beat yourself up too much, sometimes despite the best care we give our fabies, these things just sneak up on us. Our feathered kids love us so much that they don't blame us and they know we never meant to let them get hurt. Your a great Dad & Zaf wouldn't trade you for all the Macadamia Trees in the whole of South America!!! :th_greet13:

[Animalman2046]

So glad Zaf is doing well.

[plax]

Thanks Ron and De'Andrea. And De'Andrea... don't apologize for commenting late here. The accident just happened on Thursday and I read your prior post about not being able to be online from work this time around due to an illegal drug smuggling issue there. So I fully understand.

[plax]

More pics... I took my phone and snapped some pics of Zaf as he was relaxing on the armrest of his couch. There's a fair shot of his cast in the group. He was quite sleepy, both because of his recent restless nights and because of his medication. All I have to do is scratch him a bit and he begins to fade into slumberland. I may try adjusting his med time to the evening right before we go to bed.

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[Debra]

He is just so beautiful! And you got a lovely wing shot in there.

[ShellyBorg]

That is a great idea to medicate before bed.

[Honesty]

Beautiful pics of Zaf. He looks very relaxed.

[kendrafitz]

Even though he has his cast on (which is awesome, love the color match), Zaf still looks happy. He is such a sweet, gentle baby. I love the pic of him almost asleep.

[coltfire]

Tony, zaf seems to be getting through this ordeal with out to much trouble, has the vet said how long the cast will be on and if a pin will have to be fitted or not.

[plax]

Tony, zaf seems to be getting through this ordeal with out to much trouble, has the vet said how long the cast will be on and if a pin will have to be fitted or not.He said the cast has to stay on for 4 to 6 weeks and that as long as Zaf doesn't tear it apart he shouldn't require a surgically-implanted pin. The cast is very uncomfortable for poor Zaf, though. He's not able to get any sleep as he's constantly readjusting himself :(

[coltfire]

bit like me lol

[spiritbird]

Hope the cast isn't rubbing him too much. Poor baby, give him kisses for me please.

[Animalman2046]

poor baby hope he will get well soon and hope your doing ok with it all...........hugs

[plax]

This breaks my heart so much :'( ...The only way Zaf can try and get small snippets of sleep is if he's hanging from the side of the carrier. Below are some sad photos of my beautiful best friend who used to be so energetic and happy as he bounce-danced to music and played slam hockey with his heavy toys each day. I simply must get him back to where he can enjoy those things again!!!

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Here's one that I snapped just after he became alerted from the flash and popped his head up...
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And here's one that I forgot to post from yesterday...
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[Blancaej]

A[Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks] guy. I can see how it would break your heart to see him so uncomfortable. I hope it gets better soon. 4 to 6 weeks in a cast for him seems like forever. I hope it goes by quickly!

[Honesty]

Poor Zaf. He must be so frustrated. You can just see in that first pic how tired he is. I truly hope he heals quickly and life gets back to normal for you both! Give Zaf a big hug from me :th_hug8:

[coltfire]

he looks so tired, will he sleep in your arms with cuddles if your just sitting there, it would be breaking my heart having to see him like that, 4/6 weeks is a long time for a bird, is he still eating properly, or is he a bit off his food.give him a big hug from me and my fids.

[plax]

Thanks for the kind thoughts, Blanca, Wendy, and Steve.... Steve: he's eating well. Not quite as much as prior to the accident, but he has a fairly good appetite. He's only able to get short snippets of sleep on my chest, or on a pillow or cushion, or on the armrest. He's clearly experiencing ongoing discomfort that compels him to continually awaken and adjust no matter where he is. I'm unsure how much pain is involved, though.

I'm so afraid of the potential for permanent nerve damage :(. The vet said nerve damage is a possibility, but he didn't offer an opinion on whether it's likely in Zaf's case. I'll press for his opinion in that regard when Zaf has his follow-up this week. Zaf was such a foot-active bird... I just can't bear to think of what the future may hold for him :'(

[Mare]

Oh my Gosh! Poor buddy! I'm just now knowing of this accident and I'm so sorry!! Have you thought of getting one of those dog pens like the one that we have for my sons rabbit, (panels, wired together at ends, maybe two feet tall), hard for me to explain but I'm thinking about giving him more room for his length. Set up a low perch, you would have to cover the top with wire. This is heartbreaking I'm sure, for you :(. Prayers for a speedy recovery, Zaf!

[coltfire]

Tony, Amanda sends her regards and says to give zaf a big kiss and hug and sends her love and she says, she hopes everything turns out all good for zaf, and once she gets a new charger, as her's melted, she will be back soon

[plax]

Oh my Gosh! Poor buddy! I'm just now knowing of this accident and I'm so sorry!! Have you thought of getting one of those dog pens like the one that we have for my sons rabbit, (panels, wired together at ends, maybe two feet tall), hard for me to explain but I'm thinking about giving him more room for his length. Set up a low perch, you would have to cover the top with wire. This is heartbreaking I'm sure, for you :(. Prayers for a speedy recovery, Zaf!Thanks so much, Mare.

As things stand, Zaf has the ability to come out of the carrier and sit on his couch for a good portion of each day. But when he comes out, he must be supervised... so I sit there with him to pet and talk to him, and make sure he doesn't further injure himself due to his inability to move about well and his frustration with now being impaired. By doing things this way I've found that the more room he has, the more he tends to become frustrated and confused. As such, he'll start tripping over his injured leg and begin flapping to compensate. Therefore, at this point I'd be concerned about giving him more unsupervised room.

I feel completely heartbroken... what has happened to my poor beautiful, loving and playful bird has devastated me beyond words :'(

[plax]

Tony, Amanda sends her regards and says to give zaf a big kiss and hug and sends her love and she says,she hope'sever thing turns out all good for zaf, and once she get a new charger as her's melted, she will be back soonThanks, Steve. And thank Amanda for me, too.

[Blancaej]

I am feeling so sad for you both. This has to be so stressful on you Tony. Hang in there. You and Zaf will get through this. Our entire flock is sending hugs to both of you. :th_hug8:

[plax]

I am feeling so sad for you both. This has to be so stressful on you Tony. Hang in there. You and Zaf will get through this. Our entire flock is sending hugs to both of you. :th_hug8:That means a lot, Blanca. Thank you :)

[spiritbird]

We are all pulling for Zaf to recover fully. You may be doing some physical therapy for him when the cast comes off. It is so hard to go through this. Do you think he understands what has happened? Huggies to the both of you and lots of protein in the diet to help bones to mend.

[plax]

We are all pulling for Zaf to recover fully. You may be doing some physical therapy for him when the cast comes off. It is so hard to go through this. Do you think he understands what has happened? Huggies to the both of you and lots of protein in the diet to help bones to mend.You're right... it's horribly hard! Not because of the effort involved, but because of the limitations and the emotional impact forced upon my loving, sweet & spirited special feathered friend :(.

Trust me, he'll get plenty of physical therapy when the time comes! And he's been eating well and thus getting a fair amount of protein and calcium for his bones and muscles.

Zaf knows his leg is injured. But it's still difficult for him to accept the fact at times. He sometimes becomes frustrated when he attempts the things he can no longer do :(. I can't be sure whether he understands how or why his injury happened, though.

Thanks Dianne.

[Debra]

Tony, how is Zaffer doing today? It's been a few days since we've had an update.

[plax]

Hi Debra. Thanks for thinking of Zaf. I had to reschedule his follow-up vet appointment yesterday because our well pump broke down the evening before. His new appointment will be later today.

Zaf had a rather bad day yesterday. His leg was aching and he became depressed and refused to eat or drink for much of the day. Also, I changed the vet wrap on his cast and discovered that the edges of his cast material had hard and sharp pointed bits here and there pressing into his skin. It reminded me of a torture device wrapped tightly around his leg :(. I snipped off as many of these 'teeth' as I could find then re-wrapped his cast. Here are some pics of the 'teeth' that I snipped off and of an abrasion Zaf suffered from some of them:

125312541255

Sadly, at this point I'm guessing that Zaf's foot may be permanently impaired - not from the pointed bits on his cast, but from the accident itself :'(

[ShellyBorg]

I am so sorry. With time things may get better and he will learn to handle any disability he may end up with. I hope all goes well at the vets.

[Blancaej]

I'm so sorry he had a bad day yesterday. I hope the vet appt goes well. Thing may improve better then expected. Try to stay positive. Hugs!

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[kendrafitz]

Poor, poor baby! I am keeping my fingers crossed that you get some good news today.

[plax]

Poor, poor baby! I am keeping my fingers crossed that you get some good news today.Thank you, Kendra

[Honesty]

Dont give up hope yet. You may find after a few weeks Zaf's foot will heal too. I also have my fingers crossed that you get good news from the vet today!

[plax]

Dont give up hope yet. You may find after a few weeks Zaf's foot will heal too. I also have my fingers crossed that you get good news from the vet today!Thanks, Wendy

[Rescued]

I'm sure that you are struggling with Zaf, He is lucky to have a person who will care so greatly for him. Many creatures recover quite well and I am sure that with your careful nurturing he will be in great shape in no time at all. We are of course all thinking of you both.

[spiritbird]

I have a friend here (animalover) who took in a bird with a broken leg that was still healing. Previous owner never did anything for the bird's leg. He gets around on the stump about where the knee would be. We took the bird to the vet and the break was the type that cannot be pinned. His foot was limp. You should see him now! With several months of PT the bird is now holding food in that foot and perching well. Cannot walk on the foot but he has made such a recovery no one ever expected. Keep your chin up and have good Karma with Zaf. He will feel what you are feeling.

[Macaw Lover]

Oh sweetie, you look so tired in that last pic but you have to eat and drink. Ask Daddy if they can't put a few layers of gauze between your skin and the cast so that it is not so hard against your skin. You are such a good little birdie for not trying to take that cast off and after awhile you will get the cast off and you will be able to climb all over your cage and hop like a Hy and just love life but your little leg must heal first and then you can be a happy little birdie again and not worry your Daddy so much.

[coltfire]

Tony, im sure Zaf will feel more comfortable with those teeth taken off, one of my females eckkies (Aggy) had her leg broken as a 12 week old chick, and it was a spiral brake which can not be fixed, i normally, would have put a bird down with this type of break, but for some reason i didnt, she now gets around pretty good, she has learnt how to land on the leg and also how to use the leg to hold stuff she just cant scratch with that leg, she gets lots of chilli and parsley for the pain side of the arthritis, but unless its cold she does not seem to be in pain, i just had to put a platform in her cage for her to sleep, as perching for long times seems to much for her,but dont think the worse for Zaf just yet, it may and we pray it will all be fine in a short time, and if its not , they do work out how to get by, i know its heart breaking watching knowing there is nothing we can do, but as long as we show them we love them and do all we can for their comfort, they will love us back , unfortunately there is not much more we can do . so stay strong, and have faith that all will be fine in the end.

[Debra]

So, wasn't his appointment for today? What did the vet say?

[Pinkbirdy]

Oh poor Zaf :( Im so glad you looked and found those "Teeth" that must have been hurting him. I would think that would make him very fatigued . Can you put anything on his sore? Do you think its 6 weeks to heal like our breaks? I read this everyday to see how hes doing . At least [it sounds like ] your able to be with him a lot . I bet hes a sweet guy [we just want him well].

[plax]

We arrived back from the vet visit a bit earlier. It was horribly stressful for poor Zaf. Zaf is an easily panicked bird. In fact, his proneness to panic is exactly what resulted in his accident last Thursday. The vet insisted upon getting Zaf on the scale, which he'd placed on the examining room floor. I told the vet that Zaf would not step on the scale for him, but would instead simply panic and fly off. But the vet wouldn't listen to me... he got Zaf on his arm, then slowly moved him toward the scale. At about 3 inches away, Zaf panicked. He jumped from the vet's arm, flapping and stumbling into the wall. And this unnecessary ordeal resulted in poor Zaf fracturing the tip of his beak. The vet quickly recovered Zaf and toweled him, then handed him to the vet tech. Zaf's beak was dripping with blood. He was clearly terrified as the tech cradled him and the vet proceeded to examine his leg. After the leg examination the vet asked me if my choice were tissue-bonding agent or snipping off the beak tip. I opted for the tip snip. The tip of Zaf's beak was indeed overgrown, but the vet should have listened to me instead of attempting to put Zaf on the scale! I know Zaf very well, and I can weigh him at home. Their scale is 18 grams off anyway.

In total, I got into 3 or 4 arguments with the vet today about various things. It was not a pleasant experience and poor Zaf, who's already emotionally traumatized from his accident, was/and still is virtually in shock over what occurred.

Here's how my dear boy immediately collapsed upon being released from the transport carrier once I got him back into the house:

12591260

In case my description of events isn't clear enough... no, I am not happy with the way things went today. I let the vet know in no uncertain terms each time he insisted upon something that I disagreed with. I as well informed him that I would not tolerate his attempted admonishments. His attitude changed after that; he became noticeably more friendly and he began acknowledging my points (to an extent).

Ultimately, the vet is unsure whether Zaf will gain all, none, or just some of his foot's function back. He said it's possible Zaf's foot will recover but we'll just have to see how things go.

So it was another very taxing and disturbing day for both Zaf, and myself. Zaf is now resting comfortably here beside me. Sadly, this had been Zaf's best day since the accident prior to leaving for the vet visit :(

[coltfire]

Tony i feel so bad for Zaf, im sure you told the vet in no uncertain words,i dont know how you didn't flog the vet, he had no right to put poor Zaf or yourself through that, the stress it would have and probably still causing is b/s, so did he have the hide to charge you for the beak or for that matter the whole visit, you are both in my thoughts and prays, and an extra big hug for Zaf. positive calmer coming zaf's way for a full recovery .

[Blancaej]

Oh Tony, I'm so sorry for both you and Zaf. :( Why can't vets listen!! We know our pets more then anyone else. I can't believe he still tried to weigh him after you told him Zaf wouldn't like it. Even though he was able to trim the beak, it was still a mental trauma for Zaf. I don't blame you one bit for being upset.

I hope Zaf has another good day tomorrow considering what happen this afternoon. Keep your chin up. Sending lots of scritches to Zaf and hugs to you. We all feel so badly for both of you. You will both get through this, I just know it!

[Pinkbirdy]

What the Hell's wrong with these vets!!! Im sure its what you have to choose from there though. Poor Zaf, hes been through the ringer . I hope hes progressing . Im glad you spoke up to them [so unnecessary]. I tell you what [I take in all your guys experiences]. If I ever end up in a situation at a vets again, theyre not going to be pleased at what they hear come out of me if I don't feel right in what they are doing.

[plax]

Oh poor Zaf :( Im so glad you looked and found those "Teeth" that must have been hurting him. I would think that would make him very fatigued . Can you put anything on his sore? Do you think its 6 weeks to heal like our breaks? I read this everyday to see how hes doing . At least [it sounds like ] your able to be with him a lot . I bet hes a sweet guy [we just want him well].Thanks Terri. Zaf's sore isn't open... it's more of a bruise under the skin. Naturally, the vet wasn't concerned about it and even became defensive when I mentioned and showed him the teeth. He said I may have caused more harm by clipping off the teeth because he claimed it may have left sharp edges. I told him they were already sharp and poking into Zaf's skin. The vet denied that they were sharp and said that any sharp edges were from Zaf, himself, chewing on the cast. Zaf has not chewed on the cast once since he's been home with me! That was just one of our several arguments. That's how it went :(

[Macaw Lover]

I think it is time to find a new vet.

[plax]

I think it is time to find a new vet.Trust me, there are no practicing board-certified avian vets in my area.

[ShellyBorg]

:( this was painful to read, I could not imagine being there.

[Macaw Lover]

Not good, not good at all. If I was you I would contact either Dr Scott McDonald or Dr Brian Speer and ask for their advice and for your vet to consult with either as it sounds like your present one really is not ..... shall we just say - not an expert in the field?

Dr Scott lives in Chicago but his practice is more a traveling vet which many would think was bad, but he knows his stuff and very well respected in the field.

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Dr Speer is out in Oakland CA and also very well respected in his knowledge of birds.

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I would be calling one of these two to find out what is the best coarse of treatment to insure a complete recovery and full use of that leg.

Also, keep an eye on how he reacts to the medications. If he is all tuckered out like when he came back from the vet today, maybe the medicines are just a little too strong for him.

[plax]

Macaw Lover: I've just sent you a PM.

[Turquoise]

Zaf, hope you can move past this terrible ordeal with the vet!! And I do hope your leg can begin to heal without anymore trauma.

I cannot understand why vets, when not avian certified have no compassion or common sense when it comes to birds. It seems to be widespread how little our vets who don't regularly treat parrots have no clue how important it is to listen to the person who lives with them & knows them best. And why do they insist on trying to make a parrot who cannot stand for whatever reason, get on a perch to be weighed?

I totally understand your frustration Tony with not having an avian certified vet available. And your compounded frustration of having to deal with incompetency resulting in yet more pain for your best friend. :th_hug8:

[Honesty]

Tony, I am so sorry to hear of Zaf's ordeal at the vet! It makes me so angry when they do not listen to what you are saying! WE know our Birds!! We know how they are going to react to things! I am praying Zaf soon forgets about this awful ordeal and his leg will soon be on the mend. Sending big :th_hug8:to you both!

[kendrafitz]

OMG! Poor, poor baby Zaf! I would send the pic of Zaf that you just posted to him to show how traumatized he was by the way he was handled. I am just so upset for the poor thing. I would take maclover up on the offer for sure! I hope that he is feeling better today. I just feel so badly for him!

[Debra]

Oh, Tony! I'm just crying over this. I can't believe this happened to poor Zaf. Talk about adding insult to injury. How is he doing today? Is he off his food because of a tender beak? You both are in my prayers and my flock and I are sending hugs to you and scritches to Zaf.

[plax]

Thanks so very much for your concern De'Andrea, Wendy, Kendra, Debra, and everyone else! I prepared Zaf a platform on his couch and I slept there with him through the night for comfort and safety. He managed to get his first session of uninterrupted sleep since the accident. Looks like we will be sleeping there every night until he's better!

[ShellyBorg]

+1 for Doctor Scott. He is an amazing vet and has had his hands on more birds then any other vet in the US. I see him with my flock 2x a year.

[Debra]

That's great news Tony!! I'm so glad he was able to get comfortable enough to get a good nights sleep.

[kendrafitz]

Oh good! I am sure he was grateful after such a rough day! I can't get the image of him collapsed on the couch out of my head. You are very lucky to have each other.

[coltfire]

So glad he got a night sleep, if i did not have the platform in for aggy she is the same can not sleep, sending more hugs and scratches your way

[plax]

I can't get the image of him collapsed on the couch out of my head.Nor can I :(. He was so motionless in that position for such a long time that I became fearful he may have been close to death. I never want to see that expression of horror, hopelessness, and exhaustion on his face again!!! The problem is that the treatment of his condition is not finished :upset:


You are very lucky to have each other.I feel so lucky just to know Zaf... and I feel beyond lucky that he loves me so much.



BTW: Zaf actually played a bit with a bell chain a while ago. AND he tried to playfully attack my red hand vacuum :). Rest and love can work wonders it seems! I'm just unable to emotionally handle the possibility that he may never be able to bounce-dance again, or enjoy the playful happiness that was such a huge part of his life before his accident :'(

[Macaw Lover]

BTW: Zaf actually played a bit with a bell chain a while ago. AND he tried to playfully attack my red hand vacuum :). Rest and love can work wonders it seems! I'm just unable to emotionally handle the possibility that he may never be able to bounce-dance again, or enjoy the playful happiness that was such a huge part of his life before his accident :'(

Other than contacting Dr Scott, don't go focusing on his not being able to do the hops. Birds are more resilient than what people think. With him playing with his bell, that is a wonderful sign. The love you have between yourselves is what will get him through this so you need to be the strong one now and let him lead you as far as the activities.

The most comfortable spot that Kalea likes laying on me is on my boobs with her head snuggled up and laying on the side looking up at me waiting for more kisses. Time to give that big boy of yours even more cuddle time as he knows he can trust you and can relax when he is on you.

[plax]

Other than contacting Dr Scott, don't go focusing on his not being able to do the hops. Birds are more resilient than what people think. With him playing with his bell, that is a wonderful sign. The love you have between yourselves is what will get him through this so you need to be the strong one now and let him lead you as far as the activities.

The most comfortable spot that Kalea likes laying on me is on my boobs with her head snuggled up and laying on the side looking up at me waiting for more kisses. Time to give that big boy of yours even more cuddle time as he knows he can trust you and can relax when he is on you.Yes, I know you're right. But it can't not affect me... those things are simply important elements of Zaf's life, as well as of mine.

Kalea sounds like a sweetheart. I don't have much in the way of boobs, but Zaf has always still loved napping across my chest and stomach. And trust me, he is getting nearly 100% of my attention. He wants me sitting with him on his couch (where I am right now) pretty much continually ;). He complains if I get up and walk away to go do anything. In fact, I've been trying to get up to do my workout for the evening, but he's not having it!

I did email Dr. Scott today, by the way.

[Blancaej]

I'm so glad to read Zaf finally had a good night sleep. :)

Even if Zaf can't hop I'm sure he will manage to find a new activity he loves to do just as much. I am hopeful he will recover but remember, there are lots of companion birds with disabilities who are just as happy as the birds that don't.

As long as he is loved and well cared for he will learn to compensate for it, if need be.

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2

[spiritbird]

Praying for your strength throughout this entire ordeal.

[Macaw Lover]

Update please. How did Zaf sleep again last night. Better question, how are you sleeping?

[plax]

Update please. How did Zaf sleep again last night. Better question, how are you sleeping?Zaf was adjusting his positions on and off until around 2AM. After that, he settled and got some good sleep again. He had napped a lot throughout yesterday, though. My sleep was fairly intermittent.

[Macaw Lover]

Good, he sounds like he is adjusting to the situation and things will be easier on your little guy now.

Once you really see that he is ok, you too will start getting a better night's sleep

He'll be ok and so will you. Take a deep cleansing breath and relax. :th_hug8:

[Blancaej]

Glad to hear he got some good sleep again. Hopefully you will soon be able to get some better sleep, too. ;)

[plax]

Zaf insisted upon pulling himself up onto my shoulder a bit ago. I was sitting on his couch and I was very careful. I hunched over and laid my head on a pillow on the armrest to give him a lower, more stable surface. He sat on my farthest shoulder from the armrest like that for quite a while - I actually had to initiate getting him to go back on his platform. I just have to be extremely careful with him... so I am.

[coltfire]

that sounds like progress to me .

[plax]

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[jacksmom]

They say the power of the mind is strong in healing...giving Zaf a reason to want to heal (you) may be the best medicine there is!

So glad to see he is mending well! :cool:

[Debra]

Thank you for posting these! We needed to see a little smile on his face after those last pics. He still doesn't seem his old self, but he definitely looks happier.

[spiritbird]

Zaf is a beautiful Macaw and everyone knows that. He will heal at his own rate. Did you get any feedback from the Doc you e mailed?

[Honesty]

Now Zaf looks really happy in those pics. He almost looks like he is smiling :)

I have a feeling that Zaf is well on the road to recovery, which is only down to your dedicated care and the love you have for him!

[Macaw Lover]

Like Dianne asked, have you heard back from Dr Scott yet? Looking at his schedule on his website, he would be heading home from NC and not scheduled for much at all after that.

Glad to see him interested in playing with his bell. Macs seem to just love bells.

Might want to check with Dr Scott how much activity he should be doing. Don't want to overdue but yet you don't want to create a little monster making you into his own personal hairless ape slave at his beck and call. :th_loltears: You know they can have you wrapped around their little talons quicker than you want to admit to.

[plax]

Thanks for the comments, all. So far there has been no response from Dr. Scott.

Update: I've just received the following reply from the doctor...
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[Blancaej]

Glad to see Zaf playing with toys! Glad Dr. Scott got back to you. Sounds like he has a good chance of totally recovering from this. That is great news!

[plax]

Don't want to overdue but yet you don't want to create a little monster making you into his own personal hairless ape slave at his beck and call. :th_loltears: You know they can have you wrapped around their little talons quicker than you want to admit to.I've been Zaf's personal slave since day one! ;)

[kendrafitz]

I'm so glad to see the vets response, see the pics of Zaf playing and hear that he is sleeping better. He is one lucky bird and he looks so happy!!!

[Macaw Lover]

Update: I've just received the following reply from the doctor...
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I know I breathed a sigh of relief and I can imagine you did the same and more.

[spiritbird]

Positive notes from an avian vet should help lift spirits.

[Debra]

What wonderful news from Dr. Scott! Maybe you can rest a little easier now that you've heard from him. Give Zaf scritches from me.

[plax]

Yes, it's comforting news. However, it has been 9 days and Zaf's foot and toes are still limp. I'll simply have to engage and sustain my 'patience mode'. One very positive improvement, though, is that he has just started fluffing up his head & neck feathers in response to my petting his toes on his injured foot. So he obviously has the touch feeling function in them now :). That's a definite improvement!

[plax]

Yes, it's comforting news. However, it has been 9 days and Zaf's foot and toes are still limp. I'll simply have to engage and sustain my 'patience mode'. One very positive improvement, though, is that he has just started fluffing up his head & neck feathers in response to my petting his toes on his injured foot. So he obviously has the touch feeling function in them now :). That's a definite improvement!Okay, I take that back. I conducted an experiment and discovered that Zaf's feather fluffing seems to be in response to him watching my hand's petting motion. That is, he fluffs up from my petting motions without my actually touching his foot as well :(

BUT, I have been doing the 'fingernail press' and 'ice touch' tests and he definitely responds to the slight discomfort from my fingernail and the coolness of contact from a small piece of ice much of the time.

[coltfire]

that sounds great. it seems he is getting better with each passing day, prays and scitches coming Zafs way.

[Pinkbirdy]

So glad things are improving ! At least you know a little [now] of what to expect. I see a little pep in Zafs face :)

[Rescued]

I'm so glad that he appears to be doing better, Healing takes time, be sure to remember that. When you have a moment of doubt, remember, TTT, things take time.

[plax]

I'm so glad that he appears to be doing better, Healing takes time, be sure to remember that. When you have a moment of doubt, remember, TTT, things take time.Good point. However, while I realize there's truth and value in your advice, Zaf's toes still behave much like spaghetti (in that there is absolutely no resistance when I move them into any position -such as straight out or clinched- where they remain until moved again). To me, it appears that Zaf no longer has motor neuron connectivity to his right foot or its digits :(. And I'm unsure whether I effectively conveyed to Dr. Scott the characteristics and detail which lead me to suspect this horrible possibility. If I'm correct -and I SO hope that I'm not!- I don't know if it will mean a lengthy recovery for Zaf to generate brand-new neural tissue, or perhaps the complete inability to ever recover the use of his foot. Wishful thinking and trying to look at the positives is one thing... but not ignoring logic and acknowledging what I'm really seeing here is another :(

[Rescued]

I agree that one cannot simply ignore reality, however, it has not been a very long time. The body is plastic, it heals and adapts in amazing ways. At this point imagining the worst is of no help and it seems that according to the Doctors time is your friend. People and animals can and do recover in unexpected was. I recently rescued a dog who's leg had been terribly broken into many pieces and left without treatment. I found her approximately 3 weeks after the accident it was clear that she had been dragging her foot for a long period of time, and was limping heavily at that point. After a lot of time in the vet's office it was determined that the only treatment course possible was pain management and time. After 6 weeks of little improvement I was determined that the only option was amputation, however a second consult resulted in us choosing to wait a little longer. In a few more weeks this dog went from 75% non weight bearing to 80% weight bearing. By all reasonable standards this dog should never have been able to walk on that leg again, but tenacity and will made it happen when I has already written it off. In your situation time is your friend. I do hope that you and Zaf get a bit more happy news on his recovery, but do try to keep faith, it can only bring you good things.

[Macaw Lover]

I would write Dr Scott again and ask if Zaf should be moving around, what type of abilities you should expect out of him and what you can do to help Zaf in his recovery. Sort of like doing Physical or Occupational Therapy for us humans. Our little birdies are smart and if they can milk a situation they sure will. I am not a doctor nor have ever dealt with a broken bone so I can't share any experiences but it worries me that this little guy is not trying to do more for himself basing that on the theory of sick and injured birds hide their illnesses because they will be prey.

[coltfire]

Tony with Aggy, what you explained about the toe's she was the same way did not move them at all, i could move them and as you said thats where they would stay, and i though how is she going to manage not having any movement in the foot, well after about two months i noticed she was starting to hold on with the foot and her toe's were rapping around the perch, she now can hold toys in that foot or she is able to support herself with the bad leg and use her good leg, it took time, that was about 20 months ago, and now she climbs all over the cage , me where ever, her leg will never mend right and when its cold she does not move around to much , thats when i up the chilli for her, other wise she is happy ,healthy, and dealing with the way her leg is. its not how i would like it, but there is nothing i can do but make her comfortable as best i can, as to why she has a platform in her cage to sleep or just rest. so with every one sending all the prays , hugs ,and well wishes , Zaf can only make a full recovery, it will just take time, and no one likes the waiting game.

[plax]

All points and opinions duly acknowledged. Thanks to each of you for your genuine concerns!

Elizabeth: It's true, the body is indeed plastic. But that plasticity is conditional and dependent. I only hope that the conditions in Zaf's case will prove in his favor. Your story about the dog with the broken leg as well as Steve's description concerning the progression of his Eclectus' limb injury are two great examples showing that positive recoveries can happen. To your point that imagining the worst can serve no reasonable purpose, I'll just say that imagining only positives can set one up for a huge and shocking disappointment if things should turn out terribly negative. So I look at it as more of a preparation for how things may, or may not turn out. But please know that I abhor the negatives and I long for the positives! It's just that I'm compelled to be realistic and to thus adapt to whatever may lie ahead, so I try and consider all possible outcomes. Please know, though, that Zaf gets nothing but love and positive encouragement from me... which he will continue to receive no matter what the future holds!

Renee': I did reply to Dr. Scott yesterday, but he hasn't responded to my reply (as of yet, at least). Zaf has gone from an extremely energetic, active bird who played hard every day, a bird who loved to fly in the house and who was very good at doing so, a bird who would engage in games in which he would hang from his beak while flapping and simultaneously holding his toys with his feet and shaking them up and down with his legs while periodically passing them from foot to foot, a bird who enjoyed running across the floor, or from one end of his couch to the other, or across the top of his cage, and a bird who adored climbing all over as well as hanging/swinging from everything, including my hands and fingers... to a bird who now mostly lays around on pillows and platforms and who has been relegated to engaging in limited play sessions exclusively with his beak. My vet said he should not engage in vigorous activities during his healing phase, so he does not. He doesn't want to be very active now, either. He may not understand why, but he certainly knows he has been badly injured :(.

Steve: Thanks you for your description of Aggy's progression to recovery. I appreciate it very much!

[Mare]

I'm praying for Zaf's full recovery! I know this must be so hard on you AND Zaf, I'm happy to hear the Doc is being hopeful but I also understand your anxiety over the limp toes. Healing, positive energy, heading Zaf's way :)

[plax]

Thank you very much, Mare.

[plax]

A few snaps of Zaf from this morning...

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[Mare]

Hey, little buddy! I'm so sorry to hear his foot is still limp, Tony :(. How much longer on the cast, has the doc said? I've been trying to think of a way for you to protect his knuckles from being scraped up because they are being dragged, would he leave a little sock on?

[plax]

Hey, little buddy! I'm so sorry to hear his foot is still limp, Tony :(. How much longer on the cast, has the doc said? I've been trying to think of a way for you to protect his knuckles from being scraped up because they are being dragged, would he leave a little sock on?The vet says a total of 4 to 6 weeks for the cast. So it may be able to come off during the first week of October. Thanks for thinking about Zaf's knuckles, Mare... but he's always on blankets, towels, carpet, cushions, or pillows ;). He's currently living on quite a comfy array of surfaces :th_biggrin:

[Honesty]

The vet says a total of 4 to 6 weeks for the cast. So it may be able to come off during the first week of October. Thanks for thinking about Zaf's knuckles, Mare... but he's always on blankets, towels, carpet, cushions, or pillows ;). He's currently living on quite a comfy array of surfaces :th_biggrin:Zaf is going to get used to this luxurious lifestyle :) Once his leg heals, he wont want to go back to his normal routine LOL

[Debra]

Is he sleeping any better?

[Blancaej]

Zaf looks great in the pictures Tony! It's all nice to hear he may get the cast off by October. I know he will be happy about that and so will you! I am also wondering if he is sleeping better. Thanks for the great photos! It's always nice to see Zaf looking happy when he is going through so much!

[Mare]

I look forward to seeing those HUGE reptilian feet back in action! :th_biggrin:

[plax]

Zaf looks great in the pictures Tony! It's all nice to hear he may get the cast off by October. I know he will be happy about that and so will you! I am also wondering if he is sleeping better. Thanks for the great photos! It's always nice to see Zaf looking happy when he is going through so much!Yes Blanca and Debra... Zaf has been sleeping better. He hasn't seemed to want to go to sleep until it's quite late, and he's always been a notoriously early riser. But he's been getting some solid sleep in between (at least) which amounts to considerably more sleep than he managed to get when his sleep sessions were confined to the carrier during the first several days after his accident. Plus, he naps on and off all day long! Thanks for the kind words :)

[ShellyBorg]

Once he is better he may enjoy sleeping in a hammock like Fargo :D

[plax]

Once he is better he may enjoy sleeping in a hammock like Fargo :DThat would be nice for him... BUT, Zaf is so frightened of elongated and colored objects that if he saw a hammock he'd likely panic then flee and break his other leg :(

[ShellyBorg]

That would be nice for him... BUT, Zaf is so frightened of elongated and colored objects that if he saw a hammock he'd likely panic then flee and break his other leg :(
Ahhh poor kid!

[spiritbird]

Seems like Zaf is on the uphill part of the healing process. He has good care and lots of love to see him through this ordeal.

[plax]

A positive sign... Zaf has begun (very occasionally) moving the front and rear toes of his right foot apart for a split-second at a time while he's moving about. I actually caught him moving those toes from a downward hanging position to a somewhat straight out horizontal position a few times this evening. He only does it rarely and I have to watch very closely to catch the brief action, but it's the most encouraging thing yet! One aspect of Zaf's condition that has been rather frightening to see is when he raises his right leg his danging toes jiggle like gummy worms. Likewise, if I tap one of his toes while it's dangling it will also jiggle. Witnessing this leaves the impression of a dead, lifeless extremity :(. So Zaf's newly discovered willful toe movements show me that now he does have some minimal muscle control in his foot. Naturally, I'm hoping that these movements become more frequent and more extreme as time passes.

[Blancaej]

That is awesome Tony! It can only get better from here. My fingers are crossed. I'm hoping his road to recovery continues to be positive! Thanks for sharing this great news!

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[Mare]

I'm totally pulling for Zaf's recovery! When I saw Amigo's limp toes, I was not only devastated but my hope was drained. People on this forum kept my spirit strong and I thank you all for that. Zaf is on his way, Tony! Sounds like he is working his way there!

[plax]

Thanks for your words of encouragement, Mare and Blanca :). You're right, Mare... It's very difficult to stay positive when our guys are injured and suffering and we can't be sure what's ahead :(

[Mare]

Try and keep positive thoughts, Tony, they do help :)! Easy to say, hard to do, for sure..

[Turquoise]

Glad to hear Zaf is regaining some of his foot control back. One step at a time. Hopefully all it needs is to have time to heal.:th_hug8:

[Honesty]

This is fantastic news on Zaf starting to move his toes! I have a good feeling about this and will be keeping my fingers and toes crossed for his foot to return to normal :)

[Debra]

What wonderful news! Things are certainly looking up for him. I'll bet it's swelling that is now going down relieving that nerve. Keep up the good work, Tony (like you wouldn't).

[plax]

I may have mentioned that Zaf has been rather active late into the nights (pent-up energy, I guess...plus all the naps he takes during the day). He often needs to be occupied until he winds down and becomes sleepy. Well, late yesterday evening before I switched his small personal TV off, F Troop came on. Believe it or not, Zaf started to do his 'chicken-flap bounce dance' to the F Troop theme song! He did it with both legs and his bounces were quite deep! Although he didn't do it for long, he appeared to be enjoying himself quite well and he gave no indications that he was experiencing any pain :D. It literally brought tears to my eyes... I have my bounce dancing chicken-flapper back!!! :th_biggrin:

[Blancaej]

Yay!!! :th_bounce4: I would have loved to see that! :th_biggrin:

[Honesty]

I may have mentioned that Zaf has been rather active late into the nights (pent-up energy, I guess...plus all the naps he takes during the day). He often needs to be occupied until he winds down and becomes sleepy. Well, late yesterday evening before I switched his small personal TV off, F Troop came on. Believe it or not, Zaf started to do his 'chicken-flap bounce dance' to the F Troop theme song! He did it with both legs and his bounces were quite deep! Although he didn't do it for long, he appeared to be enjoying himself quite well and he gave no indications that he was experiencing any pain :D. It literally brought tears to my eyes... I have my bounce dancing chicken-flapper back!!! :th_biggrin::woohoo-dancing-bana This is fantastic news!! I would love to see Zaf doing his chicken dance :desismileys_0606:

[Macaw Lover]

Now that is FANTASTIC news

:th_chickendance:

[spiritbird]

It is a step in the road to recovery for sure. I can imagine how it made you feel. Zaf knew it too!

[ShellyBorg]

We need a video of the Zaf Happy Dance!

[plax]

We need a video of the Zaf Happy Dance!I believe F Troop is on again tonight. He likes the theme song. I'll try and have my phone handy. No promises though.

[Debra]

Oh, what wonderful news after a stressful day!

[ShellyBorg]

I had to go to youtube and look up the F troop theme song. It is kinda bouncy!

[plax]

I had to go to youtube and look up the F troop theme song. It is kinda bouncy!As it turns out, F Troop won't be on again here until Monday night. I'll see if I can catch him dancing to something else, though. In the meantime, here's a pic of Zaf watching his personal mini TV:

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[Mare]

Wonderful news! You GO Zaf! I see he enjoys the cooking channel!:th_biggrin:

[plax]

Wonderful news! You GO Zaf! I see he enjoys the cooking channel!:th_biggrin:Yeah, they did a close-up of a sandwich and he kept trying to get a piece of it through the screen :th_biggrin:

[Turquoise]

Awesome!! I just knew Zaf could 'bounce' back from this!! Our macaws are super and it takes an awful lot to bring them down for good.

I know Angel's leg disabilities are by no way the same as what Zaf just went through. The determination to be as normal as any other macaw and to find ways to achieve that is. Meaning, if it came down to it, Zaf would have found new ways to achieve his normal life again and enjoy his dancing to F Troop (by the way, I am old enough to remember the song without having to look it up~:th_LOL:). Thankfully it looks like he will not have to resort to that & he will be back to his wonderful self in no time, given a little more healing & love from his favorite flock member. :th_hug8:

[Blackhawk007]

Tony I finally go the chance to get through this thread. I'm so sorry that this happened to Zaf. I have to say that, though incredibly painful, it could not have happened to a better father. Few macaws would get the level care and treatment that your providing for Zaf. If nothing else I see this as a huge positive! Again I am sorry for both of you as I'm sure this is very hard. I really hope he continues to improve quickly!

[plax]

Thanks so much, Steve and De'Andrea. We sure are doing our best!

[plax]

Okay ShellyBorg, et al... here's my tattered boy intermittently getting into a TV theme song. Rawhide came on and since I had my phone handy, and because he used to dance to it, I decided to roll the video. In this clip he starts and stops several times. Please keep in mind that he has a broken leg and he's been through a helluva lot - you can especially notice this by looking at his ragged tail feathers. I don't care what he looks like, though! I just adore him and am hugely relieved that he's doing so well now and that he stands a great chance for a full recovery!!!

Enjoy!


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[ShellyBorg]

LOL! This brought happy tears to my eyes! He is looking great!! Thank you!

[josiesmom]

Oh that is too cute! So glad he is bouncing again. :-)

[Mare]

His leg may be broke but his spirit sure isn't! You GO, Zaf! Looks like he's starting to feel better :)

[Honesty]

Thats made my morning seeing this:)

[spiritbird]

That is wonderful. Your love and care has won out and he is once again a happy bird. You should write a story about this.

[kendrafitz]

Thank you so much for posting! I just love seeing him dancing and a great big smile on his beautiful face! Glad to read about his toes as well!

[plax]

You're welcome, Kendra. And here's one I shot a bit ago showing how Zaf spends a fair portion of each day. Notice how he hints at using his injured foot to massage himself.


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[spiritbird]

If birds could purr Zaf would be heard all over the world!

[gemini_84]

i was so sad to hear of poor Zafs accident. as soon as i returned to PP this is the first place i went. i'm so glad to hear he is doing much better. Keep up the good work Zaf and Tony

[plax]

Thank you kindly, Amanda. Your sentiment is very much appreciated :)

[Pinkbirdy]

Tony,is he still on pain medicine ? Does it make him not himself ?

[Macaw Lover]

You know he is going to milk all that lovings for the rest of his life and I have this feeling that is just fine with you :th_LOL:

Just gotta love those big blue babies

[plax]

Tony,is he still on pain medicine ? Does it make him not himself ?No Terri... he was only on the meds for the first 5 days. After that he began to refuse to eat anymore of the foods I was hiding the meds in. Rather then administering them another way and since they didn't do much to relieve his agony anyway or allow him to get any sleep, I decided to let him live on pillows and blankets on his couch instead of in the large carrier. That worked wonders! He was no longer in pain from trying to perch all the time so he then began to get some uninterrupted sleep, which he desperately needed. What you see in the video is Zaf being his sweet and affectionate self.

[plax]

You know he is going to milk all that lovings for the rest of his life and I have this feeling that is just fine with you :th_LOL:

Just gotta love those big blue babiesI absolutely agree! And, yes, I wouldn't have it any other way :D

[kendrafitz]

He is just so sweet!! I love how calm he is. He is loving all the extra cuddles. :). Zaf is just the best guy.

Rosie asks for scratches and now rolls onto her back for cuddles. But she is just so busy, either moving, chatting or chewing on me. I am hoping she will calm down a bit as she gets older.

It just occurred to me to ask how Salsa and the rest of the crew are reacting to Zaf being hurt and his new sleeping arrangement.

[Blancaej]

Loved seeing Zaf bouncing around in the video! He looks great! :th_biggrin:

[plax]

He is just so sweet!! I love how calm he is. He is loving all the extra cuddles. :). Zaf is just the best guy.I can't argue ;)


Rosie asks for scratches and now rolls onto her back for cuddles. But she is just so busy, either moving, chatting or chewing on me. I am hoping she will calm down a bit as she gets older.She might. You never know. From what I've seen of her in your videos she's sure a sweetie though!


It just occurred to me to ask how Salsa and the rest of the crew are reacting to Zaf being hurt and his new sleeping arrangement.It was actually a shock to them when I didn't come home with Zaf the day of the accident. It took them a while to get used to the fact that he's no longer in his cage. They each dropped some weight over it in fact - even Salsa. But they've adjusted and they're doing fine now.

[plax]

Here are a couple more Zaf clips (Sorry for the video clip overload!)

Zaf likes to screw around with his pipebell and its chain. In the first clip he's enjoying some gratification from messing with his bell chain.

Zaf's lower beak grows quite rapidly and he refuses to chew on wood. I generally trim his lower beak on a regular basis to keep it somewhat nice. However, I haven't done that since weeks prior to his accident - he was past due for a trim. He enjoys grinding his lower beak against various stainless steel bolts that I keep around here which helps keep the overgrowth down. The problem, though, is that without my snipping at the right places, he ends up grinding notches into his beak. In the second clip he's working on deepening those notches :(


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[Debra]

I don't know about everyone else, but I can't get enough of my favorite blue guy! I love his videos and it's good to see him getting some enjoyment out of life again. I never thought about using a bolt to help keep the bottom beak trim. Don't think it would do any good with Lucy's as she's not a chewer -- hence the bi-annual trip to the vet for a beak and nail trim.

[Honesty]

Great videos. I didnt realise a bolt keeps the bottom beak trim. Codie is always undoing bolts on his playstand. It does not matter how tightly they are done up, he undoes them LOL

[plax]

Great videos. I didnt realise a bolt keeps the bottom beak trim. Codie is always undoing bolts on his playstand. It does not matter how tightly they are done up, he undoes them LOLZaf uses threaded bolts as if they were rat-tail files. None of my others do this. If you have a bird who grinds on bolts like Zaf. it's important to make sure the bolts are made from stainless steel.

[Honesty]

Yes, all the bolts on his playstand are stainless steel. It just amazes me how he undoes them. I got my Son to do them up as tight as he could with a spanner, but still he undoes them. I should have named him Houdini :th_hehe:

[plax]

Yes, all the bolts on his playstand are stainless steel. It just amazes me how he undoes them. I got my Son to do them up as tight as he could with a spanner, but still he undoes them. I should have named him Houdini :th_hehe:If you keep Codie away from the playstand for a bit and put the slightest dab of locktite (or nail polish will work as well) on the threads of the bolt where the nut will rest when tightened, then tighten the nut and allow it to air dry for several hours (not for strength - it sets up almost immediately once tightened- but for the fumes to dissipate), Codie shouldn't be able to remove them any longer. It amounts to thread glue.

[Honesty]

If you keep Codie away from the playstand for a bit and put the slightest dab of locktite (or nail polish will work as well) on the threads of the bolt where the nut will rest when tightened, then tighten the nut and allow it to air dry for several hours (not for strength - it sets up almost immediately once tightened- but for the fumes to dissipate), Codie shouldn't be able to remove them any longer. It amounts to thread glue.Thank you Tony :) I will try this. I can do this once I have covered him up for the night!

[plax]

Thank you Tony :) I will try this. I can do this once I have covered him up for the night!You're welcome Wendy. Glad to help :)

[Honesty]

You're welcome Wendy. Glad to help :)I have my locktite glue out ready. I am just about to cover Codie for the night:)

[kendrafitz]

I'm glad everyone is adjusting.

Ashley hadn't seen Zaf's cast yet and requested to see his "blue birdy cast". She watched the video of him dancing to Rawhide twice and loved his "little chicken dance" and wished she could see him and his cast in person so she could give him a "big kiss". :)

[plax]

I'm glad everyone is adjusting.

Ashley hadn't seen Zaf's cast yet and requested to see his "blue birdy cast". She watched the video of him dancing to Rawhide twice and loved his "little chicken dance" and wished she could see him and his cast in person so she could give him a "big kiss". :)Aww that's sweet, Kendra :). I just gave Zaf a big kiss for Ashley!

[plax]

Upon massaging Zaf's foot, I noticed that the portion of his tarsus just below the termination of his splint wrap was painful for him upon touch. He would flinch each time my fingers made contact with the area. I removed the vet wrap and inspected for causal indicators. As it turns out, there were some remaining spike-like protrusions still poking into Zaf's skin just inside the bottom edge of his cast. I thought I had removed all of them, but I was able to determine from some persistent irritations on his skin, and by pulling the splint material away from his skin's surface, that I had missed a few of these small spikes protruding from the underside of the rigid wrap. I took some clippers and removed the remaining ones, then replaced the vet wrap. Almost immediately thereafter, Zaf was able to rest his weight on the tarsus part of his leg - which he would not do previously. He had kept his tarsus in a raised position and bore weight exclusively on his toes. The pointed protrusions had clearly been painful for him :(.

Zaf has been using his foot and moving his toes a bit more each day. He's still got a ways to go, but his progressive improvements are SO welcome!!! :D. Zaf's personality (that I know and adore) is truly snapping back into full effect. Considering all that's happened to him, I couldn't be happier about his state of progress!

[Honesty]

I am glad you noticed the remaining spikes and he is now more comfortable:)

This is great news with him using his foot and moving his toes more each day! I have a feeling Zaf's foot is going to be fully active again within the next few weeks:)

[Mare]

Great news! I'm sure Zaf has got to be more comfortable without spikes poking his skin! He's lucky to have someone as caring as you to keep track of these things :). Seeing improvements is a wonderful thing, isn't it?!

[spiritbird]

Zaf is lucky to have you as a guardian and you are lucky to have him in your life. I am so happy for you both to be well on the road to recovery. Good job both of you!!

[Blancaej]

So glad Zaf is doing so well. I know you must be so relieved to see him acting like his old self again. Luckily you found those spikes and got rid of them. Such a good papa!

[Debra]

Tony -- it's been a few days since we've heard how Zaffers is doing. Please update us.

[plax]

Tony -- it's been a few days since we've heard how Zaffers is doing. Please update us.Thanks Debra. I appreciate your concern!

Although Zaf can open his toes and use his foot to a minimal degree, he still has no grasping power. Most of the time his injured leg only bears 10% of his weight or so. He can rest on his tarsus now, as i mentioned before. And on an intermittent basis he can apply nearly 50% of his weight to the leg (e.g., he'll do this when he's bounce dancing). But most of the time he still avoids placing his full weight upon the leg. Additionally, it appears that Zaf still experiences some pain at times on a portion of his tarsus that's inside of the cast. When his foot is pulled or pressed slightly downward, he'll occasionally flinch in pain. Again, this is just occasionally; most of the time he doesn't flinch at all. However, I can't help but be suspicious that there could be more protruding spikes inside of the cast that I'm unable to see externally.

Overall, I think Zaf is quite happy living on soft cushions and pillows and having his meals hand delivered to his comfy nest :). He may well continue to expect such treatment once he has healed :th_eek:

[Blancaej]

Glad to hear for the most part Zaf is doing well! I'm sure he will expect his butler service to continue for the rest of his life! :th_wink: LOL!

[spiritbird]

Doesn't the cast come off soon? I can imagine the relief he will feel.

[plax]

Doesn't the cast come off soon? I can imagine the relief he will feel.It will come off sometime within the next two weeks.

[Debra]

Thanks for the update! I'm glad that he seems to be coping well. I can't wait until you tell us the cast is off and he feels much better.

[Macaw Lover]

Overall, I think Zaf is quite happy living on soft cushions and pillows and having his meals hand delivered to his comfy nest :). He may well continue to expect such treatment once he has healed :th_eek:

You better believe he is going to expect his hairless ape slave to wait on him day and night :th_hehe:

Something else that you can provide for him are the KitchenAid SS measuring spoons. The only place that I can find them at is at Kohl's as everywhere else they have discontinued them. Get yourself a few sets by the way. Zaf can use them to work that inside mandible by holding it in his footie and smooth it down, probably after he uses that ss bolt. I would wait until the cast comes off first, then give him one.

[plax]

You better believe he is going to expect his hairless ape slave to wait on him day and night :th_hehe:

Something else that you can provide for him are the KitchenAid SS measuring spoons. The only place that I can find them at is at Kohl's as everywhere else they have discontinued them. Get yourself a few sets by the way. Zaf can use them to work that inside mandible by holding it in his footie and smooth it down, probably after he uses that ss bolt. I would wait until the cast comes off first, then give him one.Great idea about the SS spoons! I'll have to see if I can find them... I'll check Kohl's in my area. Thanks :)

And you're right... Zaf does indeed enjoy being my supreme commander ;)

[Macaw Lover]

Great idea about the SS spoons! I'll have to see if I can find them... I'll check Kohl's in my area. Thanks :)



Wait for one of the Kohl's sales as their price on a set is around $12 or so. I have a 'few' sets as I seem to have dumped a few from the food bowls over time. I think the cheapest I found was as a clearance and about $4 I also look as them being 'their' spoons so when some got bent, I did not get bent out of shape myself then.

[spiritbird]

There is a couple that started an all SS bird toy business in Canada. Everyone that gets these toys raves about them, including me. Perhaps you will find something large enough for a Macaw! [Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks]

[plax]

There is a couple that started an all SS bird toy business in Canada. Everyone that gets these toys raves about them, including me. Perhaps you will find something large enough for a Macaw! [Users must be registered and logged in to view attached photos or hyperlinks] Dianne :)

[Macawfancy]

I have been busy and haven't checked in for a while, but I feel so sad for Zaf and you for what you are experiencing. I'm glad to hear he appears to be healing and will be checking in to hear about his progress after his cast is removed. You are a model parront taking care of Zaf, thanks for sharing all you have done to help others who may go through similar situations with their birds. Your love for Zaf really shows. :)

[plax]

Thank you so much, Joyce... It's been such an impactful experience for both of us. I just want him all better! I love him far more than I could ever express in written text. I appreciate your kind words :)

[94lt1]

Wow...I've been away because of family and other issues...sad to see this happened, hope he's doing better.. hope you're holding up as well..

[Debra]

When does Zaf go back in for a check up and hopefully cast removal?

[plax]

Hi Debra and Brandon... thanks for thinking of Zaf! He went in today for cast removal. His cast is off. He now has a bandage wrapped around his leg and foot to cushion his healing fracture and lower joints. Today's rad image of Zaf's leg shows a gross misalignment of his two tibia segments. Based upon the initial rad image that I was shown on 9/5, which was taken before the leg had been set and splinted, I see no improvement in the alignment. At this newest rad image's view angle , the upper segment appears noticeably diagonal to the lower segment, which appears perfectly vertical. The vet said that the forming callus may be resulting in an embedding of local muscles and nerves, which may account for the impairment of Zaf's foot control. Very sadly, at this point I must admit something to myself... it seems more likely than not that Zaf has been permanently crippled :'(. But at least he's home and comfy where he belongs, and where he's dearly loved.

[Mare]

What?!? Come on, Tony! You can't seriously live in the middle of nowhere that you have no qualified avian vets available,!?! Serious?! Arrrgghh.. It makes me so mad when I hear about vets not doing all they can. I realize expense is an issue, believe me, Amigo has not been a free bird. If there is a qualified vet within an acceptable distance, we can get up a pool to help with the cost! Don't give up!

[Honesty]

Thats good news Zaf has his cast off. I can only agree with what Mare has said! Dont give up hope!

[spiritbird]

Whatever the outcome (like you said) Zaf is deeply loved and cared for.

[kendrafitz]

I agree with Mare. Zaf is very lucky to have you. I would be willing to join in on a pool to get him to a vet who can actually help him.

[plax]

Thanks for your thoughts everyone. Unfortunately, "qualified" is a term that's far too broad in this case. There are absolutely no practicing board certified avian vets within 300 miles from my location. My current vet is the one who sees the most birds in this area, and who is not only the most highly recommended "avian vet" in this area (he's even on birdtalk's/birdchannel.com's top avian vet's list), he's also the one who was personally recommended to me by a highly regarded out-of-practice board certified avian vet who does happen to live in my area, but who refuses to see patients any longer. And while I appreciate your offers to help with cost, expense has not been an issue thus far. Cost is NOT, in any way, a factor in my choice of vets for Zaf! In fact, my current vet is absolutely the most expensive option available here.

That being said, the bottom line in our situation, sadly, is the very real and unfortunate fact that there exist areas of the United States where adequate avian vet selection is sparse to nonexistent. Also, please be mindful that any vet can see birds, can join AAV, and can call themselves an "avian vet". There are no tests that prove such a vet's true qualification other than the scarce and very-difficult-to-obtain ABVP board certification.

Again, I do genuinely appreciate your sentiments and I'm truly trying to do my very best for Zaf :(. I love and adore him beyond explanation!

[Debra]

Good news about the cast. I'm sorry to hear about how the leg healed. Does he seem happier now that he's got that cast off?

[plax]

Good news about the cast. I'm sorry to hear about how the leg healed. Does he seem happier now that he's got that cast off?Hi Debra... he is certainly happy! Zaf is simply a happy bird who adapts to his current situations. He gets plenty of love and loads of attention and he has remained playful.

I should add that the vet said Zaf may gain the use of his digits back with time. My personal impression is that it isn't likely to happen, though :(. But, importantly, I'm no vet and my opinion and fear are not in any way an absolute that he won't regain his foot function at some point in the future.

The vet also said that Zaf will probably always walk with a limp. And I want everyone to be mindful that the "gross misalignment" of Zaf's tibia sections is merely my personal interpretation and description. Again, I'm obviously not a vet. So please don't take my impression in this regard as gospel! The vet stated that while he had hoped for a better bone alignment, the healing should still progress well enough to give Zaf adequate use of his leg again. He said the callus will diminish with time, and the bone ends should fuse together well. But still, the things that immediately struck me were: 1) the two bone segments are not parallel on the same plane (one is slightly diagonal), and 2) there is a small gap that is filling in with the callus material (which seems to indicate that the injured leg will end up slightly longer than the non-injured leg - although the diagonal state of the upper bone segment may remove some or all of the additional length added by the filled in gap). As I've stated twice before, though, I'm not a veterinarian... this is purely speculation on my part based upon what I noticed on the rad image. However, considering the vet's remarks that Zaf will probably always walk with a limp and that he doesn't know for certain whether Zaf will regain the use of his digits, I believe my concerns and interpretations are reasonable.

[Mare]

It's good to know Zaf is a happy bird, he has you to thank for that Tony :). Yesterday, I got a bit emotional after reading your report on Zaf. I'm glad to know that you do have a fine vet and I didn't mean to offend, in any way. I think regardless of how much a vet will cost us, our babies are worth it and we find a way. I only brought up the pool thing because I know someone that had an account set up for donations to be sent to her vet directly, for a very expensive, much needed operation on one of her cockatoos. It helped her tremendously and saved her bird.

What was the condition of the skin under the cast? Had you gotten all the spikes? Hopefully Zaf will recover to the point of having no pain :)

[plax]

It's good to know Zaf is a happy bird, he has you to thank for that Tony :). Yesterday, I got a bit emotional after reading your report on Zaf. I'm glad to know that you do have a fine vet and I didn't mean to offend, in any way. I think regardless of how much a vet will cost us, our babies are worth it and we find a way. I only brought up the pool thing because I know someone that had an account set up for donations to be sent to her vet directly, for a very expensive, much needed operation on one of her cockatoos. It helped her tremendously and saved her bird.It's okay, Mare. I understand. I become the same way after reading various accounts of misfortune and response from folks. While it often seems like one should exist, there's actually not a perfect answer for every situation :(. I wish more than you might imagine that Zaf could be mended perfectly... but dependable resources in our situation that could be used to confirm or deny the possibility of such are drastically limited here. I've contacted other avian vets in different states and communicated with the ones who would reply. Unfortunately the responses I received were somewhat brief, and, in some cases, evasive. Some of them did not reply at all.


What was the condition of the skin under the cast? Had you gotten all the spikes? Hopefully Zaf will recover to the point of having no pain :)I can't answer that without removing the current full-leg bandage that I was instructed to leave on for one week. I can guess what you're thinking. I don't think that's the case, but I have thought about it and I've considered checking.

[plax]

The vet called me this afternoon and advised me to remove Zaf's bandage - he'd initially stated to leave it on for one week. The reason he gave for changing his decision and telling me to remove the bandage much sooner is so Zaf can begin to engage in physically therapeutic activities as soon as possible, and do so without having the restrictions on his leg and foot. Consequently, I removed the bandage.

I briefly examined the freshly exposed areas of Zaf's leg and foot; I didn't notice anything remarkable. Zaf began trying out his new freedom by moving about on his couch and climbing the pillows. He as well began periodically picking at his leg in various spots. A bit later I noticed a spot of blood on one of the pillows, so I inspected Zaf for the source. As it turned out, he had a raw area at his intertarsal joint on the inside of his leg. I'd noticed he had been picking at that particular area, but I failed to notice if there were a preexisting skin injury there.

I dressed and wrapped the injury then called the vet to report the incident. The vet stated that he'd noticed swelling at the same joint yesterday once the cast came off. He further said that Zaf had probably picked at the area and injured himself due to pain from the inflamed joint. Personally, I'm suspicious that the joint swelling, and perhaps the skin injury, may have resulted from one or more of the protruding spikes of the cast material that may have been internally wrapped. I have no proof of this, however. When I scanned Zaf's entire leg after removing the bandage I didn't notice any open sores. I wish there had been some protective cushioning applied between the cast and Zaf's leg.

[Macaw Lover]

Oh Zaf, you have been through just so much. Have Daddy put a little Neosporin CREAM on that spot, then wrap it back up again.

When Kalea came here, she too was scared of just so many things too. She would scream at the drop of a hat. Once, a plastic bag flew past her window and set her off screaming. If a truck would go by she would be on high alert to the sound. Just so many things. I would always talk to her, reassuring her that I would not let anything hurt her. She has improved a lot and the proof of that to me was the day Jody and I took a shower and when I went to get Jody from her 'condo', the hair dryer fell from the sink right when I had put my arm out for Kalea to climb onto. In the past that would have set her off but she just followed through and climbed aboard and it dawned on me just then of how far she has come.

When Kalea molts out a feather she too gets scared. It's like 'What? Where did that come from?'. She doesn't freak out about it, just more like get that thing away from me. I have talked to a couple of other people who's birds have the same reaction as Kalea.

Donovan doesn't care when one falls out and Jody will start chewing on the shaft.

[Macaw Lover]

Something else I should have added above is about Donovan. He sounds the alarm whenever I move something in the room and it doesn't matter what it is. Carry a broom or use it? He screams. Move a box, he screams. Pulling out the garbage from the can he is ok with now but when I have to pull the paper from Kalea's cage and move these 4x4 things I have on the edge of the paper to prevent Kalea from reaching below the grate to shred, when I move these 4 ft lengths, Donovan sounds the alarm.

I don't understand why he gets so upset as his former home had 3 kids and that was used for the schooling area (kids were home schooled) along with a huge TV, couch, futon, exercise equipment and more. Heck the room had to be at least 25 x 40, not a small room and you know things got moved.

I just keep working with him and hopefully his being upset like this will end. Just keep working with Zaf and reassure him that nothing will hurt him either. Also take him for short, fun rides that don't involve him being taken to the vet.

[plax]

Yes, there are certain similarities among many of them, but they're still each so different! Maynard and Salsa grab molted feathers and chew on the ends... whereas Zaf freaks from their presence. And then Jack couldn't care less about them... it's as if they weren't even there as far as he's concerned. Zaf has an obsession with a red hand vacuum I have. He'll practically break through walls to attack it. It merely being near him elicits said reaction, and when its motor comes on he goes into superdrive over it. But it's a fun, playful kind of attack-the-hand-vac thing! He treats it as a very pleasurable game, and he has shown absolutely no disinterest in this game during his leg impairment period. I have to be careful because he'll disregard the favoring of his leg to attack this particular vacuum.

[Mare]

It's surprising, to me, that there wasn't a layer of cushioning between leg and plaster. Did the vet have to put Zaf to sleep to do this work? Can a bird even be anesthetized? I'm just curious, seriously, I'm not bashing your vet, just wondering how they go about treating this type of injury? I'm truly sorry for Zaf and you, at having to continue with such a rough recovery :(

My daughter's Boston Terrier likes to go after the vacuum, too :)

[ShellyBorg]

No wrap under the cast has me scratching my head. I cast a couple goat legs a year (I live in a poorer area of the country and I get phone calls about families whose goats are in trouble and need help. Many have issue feeding never mind vet costs) The vet that trained me always had us put a layer of cotton fluffy wrap before the casting material. I know that bird legs are much smaller but you would think a layer of gaze at least.

Speculations aside I am so glad your boy is doing better! He will be all over the house in no time!

[plax]

Yes, Mare and Shelly... it shocked me, too. Then with the spikes on the edges of the split wrap pressing into Zaf's flesh at certain points -I removed all of the ones I could see- I became quite disturbed and worried for Zaf!

And yes, Mare, Zaf was anesthetized for the application of the cast, and then again for its removal. I got into a huge argument with the vet prior to cast removal about using the gas on him. The vet simply refused to remove the cast without gassing Zaf. He was so adamant about it that he threatened to resign as my vet at one point. It was a very unpleasant day. Since I desperately need access to a nerby avian vet for emergencies, I very reluctantly granted the go-ahead. Each time Zaf has been anesthetized I've experienced a terrible fear that I will never see him again :'( ...Wednesday was no different. The gas they use is called isoflurane.

I brought Zaf in for his second laser treatment today. It's so stressful for him, though, that I'm considering not taking him to the remaining treatment sessions. Seeing him restrained and hearing him cry just wrenches my heart :'(

I've obtained some of the radiograph images of Zaf's fractured tibia. I requested a pre-splint image and a post-splint image from the day of the accident, as well as a final image just before the splint was removed. I only received two image angles from before the splint was applied, and one image from the day the splint was removed. I'm nearly certain that I remember the vet showing me another image on the day of the accident when I came to pick up Zaf, which was a post-split view. Unfortunately, they are claiming that particular image doesn't exist. Below are the images they gave me today.

pre-splint image view 1
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pre-splint image view 2
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final image before splint removal on 10/9/13
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It makes no sense to me not to have taken a third image after the splint had been applied on the day of the accident. Again, my memory is telling me there was one.

[ShellyBorg]

If they did not take a post splint x-ray how do they know if they splint it right? This really has me scratching my head.

[plax]

If they did not take a post splint x-ray how do they know if they splint it right? This really has me scratching my head.Yep, that's my point.

[Mare]

Poor baby :(.

[plax]

Here's the missing post-splint image from 9/5. They emailed it to me this evening after telling me it did not exist.

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[ShellyBorg]

Now I see why. That leg was never set. It was only splinted. He never had a chance to heal clean. I am so pissed right now my hands are shaking. When they saw this they should have undone it and set the damn leg....

[Mare]

Whoa...that is not good :(. Owwie..

[plax]

Now I see why. That leg was never set. It was only splinted. He never had a chance to heal clean. I am so pissed right now my hands are shaking. When they saw this they should have undone it and set the damn leg....That has been my impression. However, if you look at the pre-splint images you'll see that the bone ends are much farther apart. It may be that the leg muscles kept the bone ends from aligning beyond the post-splint state. The break probably should have been pinned.

[ShellyBorg]

Where you ever given the option of pinning it? Just tossing out a idea, it would be more short term pain for him, but at this point it could be re-broke and pinned IF you can find a vet that will do that. That may relieve the nerve pressure. On the other hand he may just heal fine with a limp and slowly get nerves to regrow. Its a toss up both ways with what could be best.... My heart goes out to you my friend.

[plax]

Where you ever given the option of pinning it? Just tossing out a idea, it would be more short term pain for him, but at this point it could be re-broke and pinned IF you can find a vet that will do that. That may relieve the nerve pressure. On the other hand he may just heal fine with a limp and slowly get nerves to regrow. Its a toss up both ways with what could be best.... My heart goes out to you my friend.I specifically asked the vet if he thought it needed to be pinned before the procedure. He replied with: "we'll have to wait and see." When he was through with the procedure, it was unpinned and in the cast.

I've thought about having Zaf's tibia rebroken. In fact I was just discussing that option with Renee' yesterday. But Zaf has already been through so much pain and stress that I'm just not sure I could put him through more. He is my best friend! He's the sweetest bird I've ever known. Things like this are just so unfair :'(. I don't have a very good opinion of vets in general.

[Mare]

This is so sad, my heart goes out to you and Zaffers. Such a hard call. Would it help to communicate with more specialized vets to get their opinion? I know you have tried to contact some with no luck but I'm thinking that maybe there is more that can be done. I have great faith in my vet and she is not too proud to contact other vets, that may know more than she, to help my birds. If you want, I would have no problem with discussing this with my vet and have you call her. Just a thought...I'm always looking for solutions and poor Zaf is looking like he is in need.

[Macaw Lover]

You have got to be kidding!!!!!!!!! This vet took the x-ray after the casting and saw that the fracture was not reduced and still let you bring him home????? I understand about you not having avian vets close to you and need him, but after seeing this x-ray you don't need to be paying someone for this complete lack of medical skills.

That explains why he is in so much pain and doesn't have proper use of that foot.

Tony, you need to make some of that tea like we talked about, and with Zaf a bit calmer, get him to that other vet. If something isn't further done for this break ...................... he will have special needs for the rest of his life and I don't want to see that happen. It is best to have him go through the stress now rather than the long term effects this fracture will have on him (and you).

[plax]

This is so sad, my heart goes out to you and Zaffers. Such a hard call. Would it help to communicate with more specialized vets to get their opinion? I know you have tried to contact some with no luck but I'm thinking that maybe there is more that can be done. I have great faith in my vet and she is not too proud to contact other vets, that may know more than she, to help my birds. If you want, I would have no problem with discussing this with my vet and have you call her. Just a thought...I'm always looking for solutions and poor Zaf is looking like he is in need.Hey Mare... I don't really want to open a can of worms with a vet that's a great distance away from me. But if you really don't mind, I have no problem with you discussing Zaf's situation with your vet. You can even save the rad images to your hard disk and let your vet review them (if she's willing), or even direct her to this thread if you like. But in the end, I don't want any additional pain and stress for Zaf. He's just happy to be with me (as I am to be with him!) and I hope there's a chance he may eventually gain some ability to use his digits again for grasping. It's such a tragedy for this poor baby but he has already taught himself to compensate in various ways.

Having said that, I would like to learn what other avian vets think about those images. I know that Dr. McDonald told me the 3 methods for addressing a tibiotarsal fracture are: splint it, pin it, or do nothing at all. The third one surprised me.

Thanks so much for your concern and offer, Mare (from myself, as well as from Zaf) :)


(Added note: It may not be the best idea to direct your vet to this thread because as a guest she would be unable to view the images. So saving them and sending her either the image files, or printouts made from the image files, would probably be best. Thanks!)

[plax]

You have got to be kidding!!!!!!!!! This vet took the x-ray after the casting and saw that the fracture was not reduced and still let you bring him home????? I understand about you not having avian vets close to you and need him, but after seeing this x-ray you don't need to be paying someone for this complete lack of medical skills.

That explains why he is in so much pain and doesn't have proper use of that foot.

Tony, you need to make some of that tea like we talked about, and with Zaf a bit calmer, get him to that other vet. If something isn't further done for this break ...................... he will have special needs for the rest of his life and I don't want to see that happen. It is best to have him go through the stress now rather than the long term effects this fracture will have on him (and you).Renee'... Zaf plays and dances right now. Most of his physical pain has passed. Am I happy about how things have turned out? Absolutely not! I'm truly heartbroken :'( ...but it would be impossible for me to drive Zaf over 300 miles to leave him at some facility and then return home without him. Sadly, there are a number of reasons why I cannot do that.

Now that I have the radiograph images, as a next step I'm very curious what other avian vets think about what was done (and not done) in Zaf's case. Dr. Scott did indicate that one of the viable options for such a fracture would be to do nothing at all - just allow it to heal. I'm unsure if he meant only in certain cases, however.

I wish I could express just how sensitive Zaf is to the stress of new surroundings, new people, and frightening situations and things. Ongoing stressors like that upon a sensitive animal can shorten its life. Stress is truly a killer... and, sadly, Zaf is a very hypersensitive bird :(. But please don't think that I don't appreciate your sentiment and concern for Zaf... Thanks so much for caring!

[Honesty]

I specifically asked the vet if he thought it needed to be pinned before the procedure. He replied with: "we'll have to wait and see." When he was through with the procedure, it was unpinned and in the cast.

I've thought about having Zaf's tibia rebroken. In fact I was just discussing that option with Renee' yesterday. But Zaf has already been through so much pain and stress that I'm just not sure I could put him through more. He is my best friend! He's the sweetest bird I've ever known. Things like this are just so unfair :'(. I don't have a very good opinion of vets in general.I just cannot believe the vet did not pin Zaf's leg in the first place!! It looks like quite a nasty break on the xray. I am so sorry it has worked out like this Tony. Will you try to get him to another vet to see if anything more can be done? I know you are worried about Zaf going through more stress, so I can understand your dilemma!

[plax]

I just cannot believe the vet did not pin Zaf's leg in the first place!! It looks like quite a nasty break on the xray. I am so sorry it has worked out like this Tony. Will you try to get him to another vet to see if anything more can be done? I know you are worried about Zaf going through more stress, so I can understand your dilemma!Wendy: at this point I'd like some feedback from other avian vets who have reviewed the x-rays. I want to learn the general consensus among avian medical professionals concerning how Zaf's fracture was handled. Once I have that information, then I will decide the next move. I need to remain mindful that Zaf's leg has already progressed to the callus stage of healing. That makes intervention at this point quite difficult for several reasons. Once I saw the final radiograph image on 10/9, I posted here that in my opinion it showed a "gross misalignment" of the bone segments. But I also stated that I'm not a vet. So again, I simply wouldn't do anything without first receiving some sound advice from one or more trustworthy avian veterinarians.

[Blancaej]

Oh Tony, I am so so sorry for how this all turned out. I've been so busy lately, I hadn't had time to catch up on this thread. My heart goes out to you and Zaf. I think it angers all of us that this had to happen to poor Zaf. I am glad his spirits are good and I hope he is able to regain use of digits. I don't know what I would do in your shoes, but I can totally understand your hesitation to having his leg rebroken to mend properly. It would be so stressful for Zaf to go through that. Wow, I am just utterly sorry. I will be anxious to hear what other vets think of this situation. Hope his wound heals soon as well. Poor littler Zaffer. :(

[plax]

Thanks Blanca. Your words are appreciated.

[Macaw Lover]

Have you sent the x-ray to Dr Scott to get his opinion? I would at least try sending it to him and get his 2 cents worth.

What about contacting Dr Speer? I personally would pay for my own consultation and see what he advises.

You also need to act on this as the longer you wait I would think the less that can be done.

I would also be taking him out, a little at a time and get him used to a whole new world out there and show him that it is good to do new things. You have to think long term here. Let's face it, our babies will outlive us and he needs to be able to live in his world should something happen to you. You have to teach him that.

One of the other boards I am on, there was a member there who had not been around for a good long time. A few months ago he came back on needing to find another home for his GW as he was needing to move down to San Francisco and all. I did not realize it then but evidently that Mac was never caged and had total freedom in the house. There are good and bad points to that situation but to try finding someone to take him, that would be very hard to find. I love my babies but we know how Macaws chew 2x4's into toothpicks and to me, that is an issue. Not to say there aren't a few spots that have been chewed, I just will not turn them loose and let them have a Have At It.

Your mission today Tony is to start taking tiny baby steps with Zaf and let him explore the world at a pace that does not overly stress him. He will be a better birdie for it.

[Mare]

Tony, I will contact my vet on Monday, I'll let you know what she says. She is this kind of nerdy, genius, passionate about animals type of person, been working with birds for 30yrs. and I think she'll check out your radiology pics. What kind of questions would you like asked? Should Zaf have been pinned before the cast? Let me know.

[plax]

Have you sent the x-ray to Dr Scott to get his opinion? I would at least try sending it to him and get his 2 cents worth.

What about contacting Dr Speer? I personally would pay for my own consultation and see what he advises.Thanks Renee'. Great ideas about contacting Drs. McD and Speer.

[plax]

Tony, I will contact my vet on Monday, I'll let you know what she says. She is this kind of nerdy, genius, passionate about animals type of person, been working with birds for 30yrs. and I think she'll check out your radiology pics. What kind of questions would you like asked? Should Zaf have been pinned before the cast? Let me know.Hi Mare. If you would, please ask her whether the initial post-splint image from 9/5 and the pre-removal image from 10/9 show a reasonable repair. And ask if in her opinion the bone segment misalignment is likely to be a significant factor in Zaf's current lack of ability to grasp with his foot. Also ask her if in the event that his foot does happen to regain function and control at some point with ongoing physical activity (therapy), whether the tibia bone segment misalignment should impair him much after the fracture is fully healed. Also, mention to her that Zaf's intertarsal joint (effectively his ankle) has continued to be somewhat inflamed and swollen. Whether or not his fracture should have been pinned is also a good question to pose.

There's a start. I tremendously appreciate this, by the way!