Overly sensitive?

[Mare]

I made the mistake of checking out my old forum today, the one that banned me and I was appalled that some of the nastiest people on there are now revered and some have become moderators! Am I so wrong in thinking that people should be understanding towards others that may have different views or ways of doing things? Of people that are new to birds and trying to find their way? It just gets my goat when someone is obviously being rude and hurtful towards others and nobody says anything! Maybe, I don't know the etiquette of forums. Are you not suppose to speak up if you see something not going right?

I need to add that being a sensitive person makes me the bird person that I am. I don't know if you could do it without being that way!

[Turquoise]

I'm with you on this one Mare. Before I was banned on PF and before this forum was started, I felt there were many folks who were very harsh to new members who were 1st time parrot owners. It bothered me many times & I tried to find some common ground I could relate to the newbie and make them feel not so unwelcomed. Most times you never saw or heard from them again. I even pm'd a couple of them and tried to make them feel they were not the worst parront in the world, but I never heard from either one. Unfortunately I saw this on several forums, so it seems to be quite accepted in some circles.

I hope I have never left anyone feeling I was too harsh on them. I really feel if you can't say something positive & a negative comment is not going to help in any way, move on to some thread more to your liking. Some forums seem to feed off of being as rude & hateful as they can be. And I too have noticed that those same people are now moderators. Certainly not people i would want to go to if I had a problem on the forum.

[ConureGuy]

All i can say about PF is that all the moderators need a kick up the rear when they banned me i was over the moon i couldn't take the crap i was getting from some of the mods and i can say since then i have never felt the need to look in on that site it's full of power abusing fat heads that get a kick out of banning people for the most stupidest reasons they like to live in there imaginary bubble where there pretend everything is sweet and calm until you make a wrong move or speak your mind then your banned faster than a runaway train honestly all the new members that join that fourm have no idea what there in for god help them is all i can say.

[JadeC]

I haven't gotten banned but I've never felt welcome there. I usually just give advice or say like maybe a sentence. I felt so unwelcome and awkward on there. I love this one so much. :)

[Turquoise]

The sad thing with them is I was banned for making a comment on this forum about them. Not for anything I did or said on PF. I hadn't even been on posting in at least two weeks prior to my banning. It was because I called a couple of SMods a cutesy name in my post here & someone told them about it. One used to be a friend of mine on the internet.

Sad sad indeed how petty they have become. When I was over there I did the same as you Jade, I tried to give advice or encouragement, I never made a single post that would have been a banning infraction. And I never got one single infraction while I was a member. I just do not understand why they feel the need to be that way toward some folks.

[spiritbird]

If one of the mods does not like you, you have no chance on PF. They will search for a reason to ban you and usually find one that makes no sense.

[Mare]

I really want to say, I wasn't referring to PF. Surprisingly, I'm still allowed to give my two cents there. I was speaking of a different forum that I had a lot of friends on and I look in on them once in awhile to see how they are doing with their birds. Most of them lay low for fear of the lynch mob they have going over there.

[Honesty]

I really want to say, I wasn't referring to PF. Surprisingly, I'm still allowed to give my two cents there. I was speaking of a different forum that I had a lot of friends on and I look in on them once in awhile to see how they are doing with their birds. Most of them lay low for fear of the lynch mob they have going over there.Maybe it is the same lynch mob Mare :)

I agree, if you have something to say, then you should be allowed to say it without the fear of getting banned. Providing it is done in a polite manner and not directly bashing someone, then so be it!

We love reading your stories here Mare and are so pleased you joined us:)

Jade, I am glad you are happy here and we thank you for your support:)

[Turquoise]

I knew you weren't talking about PF Mare. I remember reading in another thread here that you were banned on a different forum. PF is the only forum I have ever been banned from is all I meant with my comment about them. I am not trying to speak badly of PF in hopes to keep anyone from enjoying going over there. I only commented on my experience there for clarification of why I was banned & I feel unfairly since I did nothing wrong on that forum to warrant it.

I did mention I see this sort of thing on several forums I am on and not only parrot ones. I belong to reptile, snake, tortoise, & poodle forums also. There are several of these that have this attitude and it is a sad thing to see. Some folks just thrive & live for drama. If they can't find enough of it already out there, they feel the need to create it themselves. If those same people spent more time with their birds or whatever critter they keep than on the forum running other folks lives, they would not have a need for all the drama.

[Mare]

YIKES!! Wendy, now your scaring me!! , (just kidding). I suppose it happens, I just never thought of it that way, call me naive.

[Honesty]

YIKES!! Wendy, now your scaring me!! , (just kidding). I suppose it happens, I just never thought of it that way, call me naive.:th_LOL:We want all our members to feel comfortable here and hope you do :)

[Mare]

If I was ever asked to be a moderator, (never happen), but if so, I would be a pit bull in a ring! Nasty people would go DOWN! Sorry,, that's the way I feel..

[Honesty]

Hopefully, we will never have nasty people on here:)

[gemini_84]

:th_LOL:We want all our members to feel comfortable here and hope you do :)

well on that note:th_idea:, can i please have a reclining massaging chair please.:th_laughing6:
jokes, i love it here

[Honesty]

well on that note:th_idea:, can i please have a reclining massaging chair please.:th_laughing6:
jokes, i love it here:th_toofunny:I would like one of these too :th_hehe:

I am glad you love it here :th_biggrin:

[Mayden]

I tend not to post on this forum, merely lurk so I can keep tabs on past PF people and see how they and their fids are getting on! So I'm a little weary of posting most times...

Please, correct me if I'm wrong in thinking this (folks who know me from PF that is!), but I tend to generally play 'devils advocate' in debates on forums, purely to get all sides of points across. But I'd like to think I'm not 'beating down' anyone during the process. If someone is for clipping, (for example) then I will generally argue the pros of keeping a bird flighted, so that the person who's considering clipped/flighted gets to see both points of view. (& if one side is outweighing the other, I may flip my 'side' of the argument to keep it balanced!) I think that is a healthy thing to have on a forum - not people backing down on their thoughts or opinions because they're terrified of a mod, or member, being harsh and mean to them about it, but to discuss things in detail and at length to fully explore the topic!

I've had some horrific experiences with other forums in the past and I'm currently having trouble with the few I frequent now. Maybe it's MY attitude that's the problem, maybe it's others, I'm not sure until people are pulling me up on it with detail.

I don't think there is any reason to belittle a person for what they are doing, or have done and all focus needs to be on how to improve that persons technique(?) (hand feeding, for example), and strengthen their relationship, aswell as improve their situation between them and their fid. I compared it to that of a beloved teacher at school - the lessons you looked forward to, the ones you did best in... I'm fairly sure it wasn't the teacher who was cold and mean to you, but the one who sat with you and explained where you were making errors and how to improve on things, with no criticism, just a want for YOU to do better, for YOU. Not the one who wanted to lord over you just because they actually knew what they were doing!

Anyway, people don't learn, want to learn, or come back to learn and share, if they're barraged with criticism and 'hate' from people on the forum. Even if they're doing the worst thing they can be doing for themselves and their bird, BE NICE about it and you'll soon reap the reward of helping a parrot and his owner become happier and more secure in their knowledge because of it.

Whoops, long post. :th_ashamed3:

[Mare]

That sure sounds good, to me, Cat! Thanks :)

[Blancaej]

I've always appreciated your advice on PF Cat! And well said by the way! :D

[PlaxMacaws]

You have an interesting perspective, Cat. As I see it, one problem in playing 'Devil's Advocate' and switching positions (for balance) is that some who follow the dialogs of such an individual may take the impression that their flip-flopping is the mark of a troll attempting to generate controversy that will incite aggression. I'd also point out that forum sites don't have to be debate pools. They can be friendly communities with knowledgeable members who are willing to help those in search of sound advice.

Sometimes there are logical reasons that a certain practice is just generally wrong. In my view, an opinion of whether or not to clip is not necessarily right or wrong. I think it all depends upon a bird's environment and specific living circumstances. However, some blatantly reckless situations are simply wrong based upon a combination of verifiable risk and logic. So it really depends upon the topic of a debate and the specific likelihood-of-harm factor.

Some forum communities may encourage debates, whereas others may not tolerate much beyond the hint of a dispute. There are folks who take pleasure from slight controversy... and there are folks who take pleasure from extreme controversy. And sadly, there are as well those who become quite gratified from eruptions of hatred. From community to community there also exist power trip prone staff members and kind and considerate staff members... I've known both sorts. Generally I think that people with similar attitudes tend to flock together.

So, for what it's worth, those are some of my personal opinions :)

[Pinkbirdy]

I agree Plax ,my forum that I was on for a year and a half [was horrid]. It wasn't PF Or AA . This one nobody got banned . They would "Debate all day" . I would call them Fights !!! They were viscous if your bird wasn't flighted ,a rescue ,ate Harrisons ,clicker trained and lord forbid you have more than 2 birds!!! Also don't by any means want a bigger bird. I obviously didn't fit in there. I didn't realize there were other forums. So for a new person who just wants to be a part of people who share the love for birds . The Debating everything you say [Makes me feel like CRAP} sorry to vent Plax [of course we don't have to deal with that here.]

[Mare]

I did get a lot of crud thrown at me because of what I was doing with Amigo. In my mind, it was the right thing but in many others it was blatantly reckless. My worse hurt came from people that had NO idea of how to do this with a bird and still criticized me. I had many reckless moments but we worked through them, it was all a learning process, for all of us. Maybe my biggest mistake was expressing them on a forum.

[Mayden]

You have an interesting perspective, Cat. As I see it, one problem in playing 'Devil's Advocate' and switching positions (for balance) is that some who follow the dialogs of such an individual may take the impression that their flip-flopping is the mark of a troll attempting to generate controversy that will incite aggression. I'd also point out that forum sites don't have to be debate pools. They can be friendly communities with knowledgeable members who are willing to help those in search of sound advice.

Sometimes there are logical reasons that a certain practice is just generally wrong. In my view, an opinion of whether or not to clip is not necessarily right or wrong. I think it all depends upon a bird's environment and specific living circumstances. However, some blatantly reckless situations are simply wrong based upon a combination of verifiable risk and logic. So it really depends upon the topic of a debate and the specific likelihood-of-harm factor.

Some forum communities may encourage debates, whereas others may not tolerate much beyond the hint of a dispute. There are folks who take pleasure from slight controversy... and there are folks who take pleasure from extreme controversy. And sadly, there are as well those who become quite gratified from eruptions of hatred. From community to community there also exist power trip prone staff members and kind and considerate staff members... I've known both sorts. Generally I think that people with similar attitudes tend to flock together.

So, for what it's worth, those are some of my personal opinions :)

Aha, I appreciate what you're saying about trolling (was recently called a troll, was my first time, boy did it hurt! *cries*) but let me explain a bit more:

I'm pro-flight, in most circumstances, and so if everyone is all 'pro flight' for the rest of the thread, I will then go on to explain the benefits of clipping. I don't really see how that can be taken as 'trolling' by opening up other options to someone who is not receiving a balanced point of view. In my head it's kind of, putting my own wants and needs aside (yey flight!), to show others that they don't need to necessarily follow 'the majority' in a decision and can still have a happy life with their bird. *shrug*.

I just don't think it's fair to bombard someone with one sided views and if noone else is going to be impartial about both sides, I might as well do it. I don't enjoy drama, but I don't see actual debates as drama. Fights, aggression, etc, yes, they're dramatic. But a healthy discussion about different things needs not be any more than that, a discussion and debate on pros and cons of each side. Noone has to agree or disagree, just put information out there for owners to read and perhaps receive help on making a decision.

I will never say that I am right about (sorry for clipping vs flighted again) flight in any situation other than my own - because it is different for each parront and their bird, so while something works for one person - and they may feel it's the bee all and end all, it may not work for another. So to discuss all options and present all facts and info (and not scaremongering!) and help the owner come to a decision (and not feel chastised for it) is what I feel forums should be about. (Along side all the fun and chat and pictures, etc!) There is no need for aggression to be involved in those types of discussions. & if presenting both sides of view makes me a troll, then a troll I shall be until others make a balanced 'argument' without my help. :p

I think so many people here have had bad experiences with debates that have turned nasty, (I've certainly felt the brunt of an entire forum attacking me for something I did/said that was 'wrong') that they're perhaps more nervous of it happening again. I've debated with plenty of people on different forums and at the end of the thread, we all usually come to an agreement for the thread starter (a question, perhaps) and can all see each others point of views. We may not agree or share a love for that point of view, but we can accept that it works for them, etc. No malice or anything towards any of the people involved at all. :) At the end of the day, you've basically got a ton of passionate people in a box together and expecting them to all agree and keep stum about something they might not feel is right, just isn't going to happen! People are more than welcome to ignore threads about certain topics they may not agree with (breeding?), but if you feel so passionately that someone is doing something wrong that you need to speak about it, I think you should! But again; no aggression, no belittling, no malice, be open to some feed back and acceptance that your point of view is merely opinion and not a set in stone fact that will work for X parront and bird. Constructive, encouraging, helpful and informative.

I do agree, that those with high risk factors need to be seen to immediately, but if someone is keeping their cockatoo in a budgie cage, next to an open pythons cage do not go: "YOU CANT DO THAT, YOU'RE SUCH A BAD PARRONT, YOU'RE HORRIBLE, GIVE HIM UP NOW TO SOMEONE WHO CAN CARE FOR HIM PROPERLY' etcetcetc. (Not exaggerating, people do that!)
Instead: "Cockatoo's really need a bigger cage, you can't keep him in that, it's not suitable, he needs space for xyz etc. and he needs to be moved to a more secure environment right now because your snake is an immediate danger for him. If you let us know your budget, some of us members may help you find a more appropriate cage for him! :)' We all know that bird NEEDS a new cage asap. But by jumping down peoples throats (birds best interest at heart, or not...) you're going to do more harm than good. Because that person will just vanish from the forum and not come back for any more help when perhaps, their birds life is actually going to be endangered. Instead, help them and encourage them to come back with more questions.

People make mistakes, people don't know everything about birds and need advice, but by sharing our information (and experiences!) we can all learn from one another and come to a decision on what's best for that persons scenario. I won't get into a huge personal anecdote here, but Merlin is flighted and he was out with me one day, almost got away. People demanded I got him clipped, but I won't because it won't work for us. I am 100% certain of that fact, new and unsure parronts may not be. They need people to guide them through a the process of why each is good and bad, why it applies to their scenario (flighted bird, took outside, got away, duh - clip!) and why it will and wont work (he's got a splayed leg, needs his flight - keep flighted!): with open views. &I'm sure all of us here want to help others out when we can :)

Thanks to those who said I'm helpful on PF. I do try. :th_biggrin:

I also feel here that we're having a 'healthy discussion' on 'healthy discussions'! - I'm not feeling any nastyness or passive aggression from anyone, so y'know, it can work!

Long post again (and I think I repeated myself a few times!), sorry! :th_ashamed3:

[PlaxMacaws]

Aha, I appreciate what you're saying about trolling (was recently called a troll, was my first time, boy did it hurt! *cries*) but let me explain a bit more:

I'm pro-flight, in most circumstances, and so if everyone is all 'pro flight' for the rest of the thread, I will then go on to explain the benefits of clipping. I don't really see how that can be taken as 'trolling' by opening up other options to someone who is not receiving a balanced point of view. In my head it's kind of, putting my own wants and needs aside (yey flight!), to show others that they don't need to necessarily follow 'the majority' in a decision and can still have a happy life with their bird. *shrug*.

I just don't think it's fair to bombard someone with one sided views and if noone else is going to be impartial about both sides, I might as well do it. I don't enjoy drama, but I don't see actual debates as drama. Fights, aggression, etc, yes, they're dramatic. But a healthy discussion about different things needs not be any more than that, a discussion and debate on pros and cons of each side. Noone has to agree or disagree, just put information out there for owners to read and perhaps receive help on making a decision.

I will never say that I am right about (sorry for clipping vs flighted again) flight in any situation other than my own - because it is different for each parront and their bird, so while something works for one person - and they may feel it's the bee all and end all, it may not work for another. So to discuss all options and present all facts and info (and not scaremongering!) and help the owner come to a decision (and not feel chastised for it) is what I feel forums should be about. (Along side all the fun and chat and pictures, etc!) There is no need for aggression to be involved in those types of discussions. & if presenting both sides of view makes me a troll, then a troll I shall be until others make a balanced 'argument' without my help. :p

I think so many people here have had bad experiences with debates that have turned nasty, (I've certainly felt the brunt of an entire forum attacking me for something I did/said that was 'wrong') that they're perhaps more nervous of it happening again. I've debated with plenty of people on different forums and at the end of the thread, we all usually come to an agreement for the thread starter (a question, perhaps) and can all see each others point of views. We may not agree or share a love for that point of view, but we can accept that it works for them, etc. No malice or anything towards any of the people involved at all. :) At the end of the day, you've basically got a ton of passionate people in a box together and expecting them to all agree and keep stum about something they might not feel is right, just isn't going to happen! People are more than welcome to ignore threads about certain topics they may not agree with (breeding?), but if you feel so passionately that someone is doing something wrong that you need to speak about it, I think you should! But again; no aggression, no belittling, no malice, be open to some feed back and acceptance that your point of view is merely opinion and not a set in stone fact that will work for X parront and bird. Constructive, encouraging, helpful and informative.

I do agree, that those with high risk factors need to be seen to immediately, but if someone is keeping their cockatoo in a budgie cage, next to an open pythons cage do not go: "YOU CANT DO THAT, YOU'RE SUCH A BAD PARRONT, YOU'RE HORRIBLE, GIVE HIM UP NOW TO SOMEONE WHO CAN CARE FOR HIM PROPERLY' etcetcetc. (Not exaggerating, people do that!)
Instead: "Cockatoo's really need a bigger cage, you can't keep him in that, it's not suitable, he needs space for xyz etc. and he needs to be moved to a more secure environment right now because your snake is an immediate danger for him. If you let us know your budget, some of us members may help you find a more appropriate cage for him! :)' We all know that bird NEEDS a new cage asap. But by jumping down peoples throats (birds best interest at heart, or not...) you're going to do more harm than good. Because that person will just vanish from the forum and not come back for any more help when perhaps, their birds life is actually going to be endangered. Instead, help them and encourage them to come back with more questions.

People make mistakes, people don't know everything about birds and need advice, but by sharing our information (and experiences!) we can all learn from one another and come to a decision on what's best for that persons scenario. I won't get into a huge personal anecdote here, but Merlin is flighted and he was out with me one day, almost got away. People demanded I got him clipped, but I won't because it won't work for us. I am 100% certain of that fact, new and unsure parronts may not be. They need people to guide them through a the process of why each is good and bad, why it applies to their scenario (flighted bird, took outside, got away, duh - clip!) and why it will and wont work (he's got a splayed leg, needs his flight - keep flighted!): with open views. &I'm sure all of us here want to help others out when we can :)

Thanks to those who said I'm helpful on PF. I do try. :th_biggrin:

I also feel here that we're having a 'healthy discussion' on 'healthy discussions'! - I'm not feeling any nastyness or passive aggression from anyone, so y'know, it can work!

Long post again (and I think I repeated myself a few times!), sorry! :th_ashamed3:I can't disagree with most of what you've expressed, Cat. However, one method that I think may work better as far as injecting balance into a discussion would be to present both sides within one's response. That's as opposed to playing 'Devil's Advocate' and appearing to support the less popular perspective (especially when it's not one's genuine opinion). Everything else you've mentioned seems reasonable to me, though :)