Anthropomorphization with talking birds

[josiesdad]

It's been said that one of the greatest disservices you can do to an animal is to anthropomorphize them (put a human spin or words to their actions) I was a K9 cop early in my life. The K9 school pushed not doing this in a big way...... having said that, how can you avoid doing this with a Macaw? Some say that the bird talking is just mimicry, but I can't help think that there is so much more going on behind those eye's. I have seen her react to conversations she was not part of, with answers of yes or no. I have seen her verbally warn that she didn't want to be handled. I had a Moustache Parakeet named "Sweet Pea" who used to say "don't touch I'll bite" and if you didn't listen and pushed the issue you got nipped and he would say "I WARNED!" my ex now has custody of him. But I would like to hear the thoughts of people reading this. Do birds have to capacity to converse (like a small child)? Or am I hearing what I want.

[josiesmom]

Well, you already know what I think, but I'll say it here. I think birds know what is being said around them. Josie definitely understands what she likes and what she doesn't like. We all know that she LOVES the pillow pet commercial.

[spiritbird]

You hit the nail head on this one. Our companion birds really do know what we are saying to them and perhaps others around us. I am convinced on this one. Example: I always said to Rosie (former TAG) "do you want to take a walk" and we did so. Now when I say this and she is not hear my cat Christine goes to the door and meows until I take her for a walk.

[Blancaej]

I definitely think they know what is going on and what we are talking about. After all, they do have the intelligence of a 4 or 5 year old human. And 4/5 year olds understand a lot! So there is no doubt in my mind they "get it" and they will use what they know to there advantage. LOL!

[Rescued]

There has been a lot of controversy over this issue. Most people who have animals know that they have different amounts of understanding. Each animal (not just each species) has different capacities to understand languages and body language. K-9s also have a great ability to learn and understand even if they do not have a human understanding. I think that the anthropomorphism of animals is generally wrong because we do not see the amazing beauty and complicated nature of animals without trying to make them human. We can and should recognize them as their own brilliant selves.

Alex and Dr. Pepperburg broke all the preconceived notions on cognitive understanding of animals, certainly some birds have more "understanding" than others. My birds are all over the charts. One bird does't seem so bright, while another is a master manipulator. It also takes a teacher to really bring the best out of someone and the same is for animals. You can't expect them to just "pick up" everything. If you give them an enriched environment and the opportunity to learn they will surprise you.

[plax]

I think in many cases humans tend to boast arrogant attitudes in that they consider themselves elite and more exclusively capable of certain skills than they truly may be among the other species of nature's Animal Kingdom. I'll admit that lots of animal loving folks enjoy behaving anthropomorphically when discussing their pets. But how many anthropomorphic beliefs accurately represent the real mental prowess of various species, and how many are merely wishful thinking? Various scientific tests and studies have been conducted on birds, and I must say that some of the conclusions have very much impressed me! Some of the tool usage that birds engage in is nothing short of amazing!

Some people say that parrots merely mimic, while others say that parrots merely associate vocalization patterns with actions and/or objects. Well if you've kept parrots for long, there can be no doubt in your mind that they indeed strongly associate actions and objects with the vocalization patterns they utter. The thing that many folks miss, though, is that that's precisely what we as humans do with our languages... from infancy we learn to associate certain sounds and sound patterns with actions and objects. In humans, the level of complexity may grow beyond what a parrot is capable of, but it's nonetheless the very same system. If any naysayer were able to spend just one day with Salsa, I have no doubt that he or she would change his or her opinion about parrots not understanding what they are saying. It's not only the appropriateness of the words and phrases Salsa speaks at the correct times that's so impressive, but his remarkable perfectly-timed (and quite diverse) array of inflections which he uses to utter those words and phrases is simply astonishing! Even to me :D.

[josiesdad]

inflections.... I didn't even consider it but now that you mention it, mere mimicking wouldn't account for the correct inflection to what is being said. Josie is a master at this, I guess I just never thought much on it.
I think in many cases humans tend to boast arrogant attitudes in that they consider themselves elite and more exclusively capable of certain skills than they truly may be among the other species of nature's Animal Kingdom. I'll admit that lots of animal loving folks enjoy behaving anthropomorphically when discussing their pets. But how many anthropomorphic beliefs accurately represent the real mental prowess of various species, and how many are merely wishful thinking? Various scientific tests and studies have been conducted on birds, and I must say that some of the conclusions have very much impressed me! Some of the tool usage that birds engage in is nothing short of amazing!

Some people say that parrots merely mimic, while others say that parrots merely associate vocalization patterns with actions and/or objects. Well if you've kept parrots for long, there can be no doubt in your mind that they indeed strongly associate actions and objects with the vocalization patterns they utter. The thing that many folks miss, though, is that that's precisely what we as humans do with our languages... from infancy we learn to associate certain sounds and sound patterns with actions and objects. In humans, the level of complexity may grow beyond what a parrot is capable of, but it's nonetheless the very same system. If any naysayer were able to spend just one day with Salsa, I have no doubt that he or she would change his or her opinion about parrots not understanding what they are saying. It's not only the appropriateness of the words and phrases Salsa speaks at the correct times that's so impressive, but his remarkable perfectly-timed (and quite diverse) array of inflections which he uses to utter those words and phrases is simply astonishing! Even to me :D.

[Turquoise]

I totally agree on this one that our birds do understand and converse with us to a degree that is amazing! I too agree that our birds learn in the same way human infants begin life learning, by mimicking the repetition of the same words or actions. True we as humans are capable of much more diverse meanings of these learned repetitions, but then most of us move beyond the 4 to 5 yr. old stage our feathered kids seem to be most comfortable living their life out in.

All my feathered kids are still young, but each one has displayed this very unique ability to understand & use what they have learned thus far in perfect timing to something said or done around them. My most favorite one with Roscoe is when I caught him chewing on something while he was on his play perch. Since I keep both Angel & him in large walk in enclosures in the corner of my living room, I had to use a unique way to cover their cages at night. I strung thick rope around the two sides needing to be covered about 1/2 ft out and attached it to the wall close to the ceiling. To this I hung plastic shower curtains that I pull together at the corner and clip together. This worked great til Roscoe learned he could hang from the wire, flap his wings & grab the curtain with his drumsticks & pull it to him. End result was big peep holes and the rope had to be moved farther out to about 1 1/2 ft. So I have him on his perch while I am cleaning his cage one day. I turn around to find him in the perch tray with something in his claw he is picking apart. It was a piece of the plastic curtain I hadn't cleaned up yet. This perch sits by the enclosure. I ask him, "What are you chewing on?" His response was to throw it off his claw as fast as he could & say, "Hello, whatttt?" I took that to mean, "Chewing what?" "I have nothing in my claw!" Just like a small child who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.:th_LOL:

[josiesdad]

lol It came on again, it's when she see's the ladybug one she gets excited. As far as understanding what she likes, explain why she LIKES to NOT LIKE me..lol th
Well, you already know what I think, but I'll say it here. I think birds know what is being said around them. Josie definitely understands what she likes and what she doesn't like. We all know that she LOVES the pillow pet commercial.

[josiesdad]

I love it, Josie's favorite past time is busting my chops.... she wants to argue and I interact she is almost fierce but when I walk away she coaxes me back by using a sweet almost little girl voice or Anita's laugh...which I love.
I totally agree on this one that our birds do understand and converse with us to a degree that is amazing! I too agree that our birds learn in the same way human infants begin life learning, by mimicking the repetition of the same words or actions. True we as humans are capable of much more diverse meanings of these learned repetitions, but then most of us move beyond the 4 to 5 yr. old stage our feathered kids seem to be most comfortable living their life out in.

All my feathered kids are still young, but each one has displayed this very unique ability to understand & use what they have learned thus far in perfect timing to something said or done around them. My most favorite one with Roscoe is when I caught him chewing on something while he was on his play perch. Since I keep both Angel & him in large walk in enclosures in the corner of my living room, I had to use a unique way to cover their cages at night. I strung thick rope around the two sides needing to be covered about 1/2 ft out and attached it to the wall close to the ceiling. To this I hung plastic shower curtains that I pull together at the corner and clip together. This worked great til Roscoe learned he could hang from the wire, flap his wings & grab the curtain with his drumsticks & pull it to him. End result was big peep holes and the rope had to be moved farther out to about 1 1/2 ft. So I have him on his perch while I am cleaning his cage one day. I turn around to find him in the perch tray with something in his claw he is picking apart. It was a piece of the plastic curtain I hadn't cleaned up yet. This perch sits by the enclosure. I ask him, "What are you chewing on?" His response was to throw it off his claw as fast as he could & say, "Hello, whatttt?" I took that to mean, "Chewing what?" "I have nothing in my claw!" Just like a small child who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.:th_LOL:

[josiesmom]

Lets just say it here....Josie has you wrapped around her little finger so to speak. You want to be annoyed with her sometimes because of the noise, but she always lures you back with the sweet voice and my laugh. Wonder if she learned how to lure you back from watching me?

[josiesdad]

:th_chickendance: I'm leaning towards yes on that one..
Lets just say it here....Josie has you wrapped around her little finger so to speak. You want to be annoyed with her sometimes because of the noise, but she always lures you back with the sweet voice and my laugh. Wonder if she learned how to lure you back from watching me?